Print

[degers]

I don't know anybody who would like the skin scrapings, however I can certainly tolerate them seeing as every Pleo I have ever earned has developed these grazes.  Don't you feel like you are abusing Innvo's generosity?

[PWOKristy]

No I don't. Any more than any one else. Gee.

[degers]

I think you guys might end up regretting sending perfectly working Pleos back to Innvo eventually.  Maybe not immediately, but certainly when Innvo decides it's just not profitable to make Pleos anymore because people return them for no reason.

Certainly I know Derek watches the forums all of the time, so you certainly are not doing yourself any favours by talking about being able to take advantage of Innvo in this way.  You might end up seeing Innvo just not accepting any skin-related returns at all.  They don't have to.  It's not in the warranty.

[Malfie]

Won't a PleoRB with a tighter skin actually be more likely to have skin tears? My PleoRB seems to have very loose skin but so far has no grazing, holes or tears.

[mweed]

That's what I would have thought.  I was under the impression that they went and made the skin looser to prevent the ripping and tearing the older Pleos were having.

[PWOKristy]

That's to every one. :-P'.

[saratogaspringer]

Degers, if you get a chance to talk to Derek Dotson, please let him know if we had a way to repair the holes in the Pleo rb, like some skin patches that I think IMR talked about a while back, then people might be so inclined not to send them back.  I have no grazing or holes in mine.  She is on the 8th battery charge.  (Petroleum jelly really works in the armpits to prevent holes, in my opinion. I use it before every play.)  If they could come up with something simple like that, I know I would be willing to buy it and repair Candy without sending her back.  I would never be able to send her back if I wanted to.....I would just have to buy a new one.  I have 2 little kids that are pretty attached to these Pleos.  I would have many temper tantrums to deal with if I sent any back.    I do, however, understand the frustration of those that got holes in their RB's.  In the US these days (I don't know the condition in other countries), people are out of work and money is tight.  When people spend 500 bucks on something, they do expect it to last, particularly if it is the first one that they have owned.  I am a dentist by profession.  If I place a crown in someone's mouth, and the porcelain breaks, I replace it for free no matter how old it is, if I am the one who did it.  Just the way I do business.  It seems like Innvo is going about it the same way.  I feel it has only brought me more business in the long run. I don't mean to ruffle any feathers, just trying to look at both sides of the coin.  

[degers]

Hi Saratoga,

I understand where you are coming from completely.  I talked to Derek today about this thread actually, he was not the most pleased person.

Would you replace a crown on one of your patients teeth if the patient just wanted a new one, the porcelain isn't cracked?

The way you feel about your dental work is the way that Derek felt about how Innvo should act to early adopters.  He wanted to do everything possible to make sure the customer was pleased with the purchase, and hence allowed some returns that would not be covered by the warranty, however he has indicated that, given the current situation of it being seen to be very easy to just swap ones pleo for a new one, Innvo may quickly stop accepting returns on the grounds of skin issues altogether!

Pleos skin is so hard to make, it is also a closely guarded trade secret.  The reason that nobody ever makes skinned robots for consumers is the reaons you experience now!  Innvo are constantly trying to improve it though.  They can't improve it if every time an improvement comes out, everyone requests a return in order to receive an improved version!

The return that PWOKristy is trying to send back to Innvo is going to set Innvo back by about 3 Pleos profit!  Go figure how long it's going to take for Innvo to go bankrupt!

Either way, if people want to return their Pleo for any reason, that is their perogative, however I would just like to urge everyone who wants to see the next product from Innvo labs to do their part and not send their Pleo back if it's not broken.


I just want to end with the fact that every Pleo return in the USA goes directly to Derek, who examines each Pleo returned.  Returns like the one that PWOKristy is planning to do (for the pictures below) are going to end up ruining it for everybody who needs to return a Pleo for a proper reason, or for those people who just want to see the next product from Innvo.

More details...

More details...

[InmemoryofRomeo]

Kristy, you have very little wear there, if you start applying Pledge or petroleum jelly to the under arms/legs before each use you shouldn't have a problem.

[PWOKristy]

Okay Romeo. And don't pick on only "me". Again, that goes to every one. I might not try to return my Pleo. I didn't know all of that before.

[degers]

Please don't think that I am 'picking on' you at all!  You uploaded the photos to the forum and explained the fact that you were trying to return your Pleo, so I decided to continue the discussion, thats what the forum is for.  If you don't want us to discuss your photos/situation, then you don't have to upload them.

[PWOKristy]

I know that. And I wanted help. :-P Wow, I don't think I'll return it now. I don't wanna hurt Innvo. I'm not gonna. I didn't know all of that before.

[InmemoryofRomeo]

I'm not picking on you, just offering a suggestion. I can't comment on anyone else's Pleo unless they post pictures. But you are lucky and have very little wear which should be preventable

[Crewella]

It might help all round if we establish exactly what the situation on returns for skin problems is.

If skin is not covered by the 90 day warranty, then it's something that Innvo are kindly sorting out and honouring because they recognise there is a problem.  That means that those people that have early signs of wear, and are understandably panicking in case any holes appear after the warranty has run out have no need to do so.  Making that clear might help both Innvo and concerned Pleo RB owners?

[degers]

Innvo have created a problem for themselves by accepting returns without a proper system for determining if a return was in fact merited or if the return should not be accepted.  If they return any skin related return, they are doing so without regard for what they actually say in the warranty which states:

PURCHASER SHALL NOT BE ENTITLED TO THE LIMITED WARRANTY DESCRIBED ABOVE IF: ...
...THE EXTERIOR FINISH OF PURCHASER'S PLEO UNIT IS DAMAGED OR THERE IS COSMETIC DAMAGE, INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, NORMAL WEAR AND TEAR.

Innvo have only recently realised that they have caused themselves massive trouble, but don't quite know the best way to go forward from here, they don't want to make people unhappy by not accepting any returns due to skin, however they would be perfectly within their rights not to.

What I am trying to say is that people shouldn't take advantage, but inevitably people will do.

[saratogaspringer]

Well, I hope that all goes well with the company and that they are around for years to come.  Wouldn't it be cool if we could have a "Pleo town meeting with Derek Dotson?". This site is full of great people with great ideas.  I would love to see them turn a bigger profit by opening a Pleo repair shop where owners would send in their pleos to have them repaired or re-skinned.  Owner could pay for shipping to and from and pay for the repairs.  I know I would do it if I had a broken pleo out there that needed attention.  I know he probably has better things to do than to talk to us, but it would be so cool! 

[Crewella]

I absolutely agree, degers, it would be shame for Innvo to have caused themselves problems by trying to do the right thing.  

[degers]

I know he probably has better things to do than to talk to us, but it would be so cool! 

He is busy, which he never is able to find time to post, but I usually talk with him once a week for around an hour or so about happenings on the forum.  Don't worry, he's about as up to date as I ever am!

[Crewella]

To be fair, although there will always be some people that take advantage of a situation, I think many people who might try to return their Pleo RB due to minor akin wear will be doing so because they're scared the problem might get worse after the warranty has run out, and they'll get stuck with a $500 Pleo RB with huge holes in it.  Making it clear that this is not a warranty issue with a 90 day time limit should at least stop the panic?  I hope. 

[ehschw76]

I feel kinda to blame for this whole situation, being that I was one of the first to get a Pleo rb and one of the first to send him back due to the holes / tearing in the skin!  I would hate for Innvo to suffer due to this whole issue!  Rafael and Derek have been awesome through this whole thing and very understanding and I hope that they don't think that I was taking advantage of their generosity in accepting Peanut1 back for replacement.  My main goal was to inform Innvo of the issues I was having so they could correct them for the future.   If people are really concerned about something happening to their Pleo rb's in the future, then look at getting an extended warranty through someone else like I did. For 3 years I don't have to worry about it.  I only went through Innvo since it was within the 90 days.  

I would love if Innvo had a meeting with the users to find out what we love about our Pleo's and what we think could be improved in the future.  

[RedwoodsMama]

Hi Eric, in all honesty I do not think you should worry about being "to blame", If Innvo or Derek Dotson thought there were not sufficient evidence of skin or other issues, I do not think they would offer you a replacement "just because you sent Peanut in," at their request, Correct? It isn't or wasn't just a case of "grazing" or minor paint wear that lots of Pleo Rb have. If a Pleo Rb has a hole/holes and it is getting bigger and you have been using Pledge and following the guidelines and it is within that Warranty time period, then I can't see you are acting frivolous. That would be rediculous, It is the difference between returning a computer that has cosmetic scratches on it, and the computer that won't Power on. ( just an example.)
                          Also if there is a faulty mechancal problem somewhere such as one member had a broken tail, another a Pleo that had a back leg that dragged or was faulty, those are things that need to be checked out, do you agree? Anyway, do not blame yourself for anything that is not in your hands and what other members may or may not do with their Pleo Rb. I think Derek Dotson and Innvo are wise enough to be able to determine which Pleo Rb are genuine "problems" and ones that aren't will be returned as is, in my opinion.I do think the backup warranty from a second party is a great ideal, I know I am going to look into it, Anything that costs as much as a Pleo, whether it is a computer, camera, etc, should be protected as much as possible, It is well worth the small fee in the long run when you know how expensive it is to fix electronics these days.( computers for example) I had a Camcorder that I bought at Staples and it was a very nice camera/ camcorder and the first one I had spent that much money on.
               I had it home less than 24 hrs when I knew there was something wrong with the color, everything was in shades of purple, I just am not too computer mechanically inclined and thought I was not doing something right and contacted Cannon to told me step by step things to do to check the situation. Turned out the color was broken so I needed to send the receipt proof of purhcase in and they sent me a prepaid label to mail it to their repair shop here in CA. They contacted me first ( making a mistake not knowing the situation that I had jUst bought it) and were billing me almost $300.00 to repair the color,  I straightened it out and was not billed anything and it was fixed and sent back to me like new again, but It shows how expensive fixing items can be.                 RedwoodsMama

[latrine]

Innvo also, unfortunately, in my opinion, created a problem when they sent them to be made in Hong Kong.  Everyone makes mistakes.
This is a forum to ask questions and show pictures and should be a place where there is no 'dumb question' and there is a pleasant answer to pleasant questions. 

Degers I really really appreciate your help with my problem, I really do, and I mean no disrespect and mean no disrespect to anyone here but can we please tone it down? There is no reason for Kristy to have that type of a response to her post.  We obviously don't all agree about everything but there is no reason we can't work it out pleasantly.

I've spoken to Derek as well and through emails several times too and I know as you all should know from the videos, that he very much values input from people. If/ When he reads the forums we don't make any sort of problems worse, this post makes no problem worse.. makes no 'issue'. He learns what his customers are thinking and he tries to think of ways to improve them.  He strikes me as a real thinker, obviously, and no one has done any damage by asking to return an item.
From this post he would learn that Kristy is obviously frightened that her Pleo is going to end up having worse problems very quickly.  Has anyone else ever worried a bit prematurely about anything? We all have.  Nothing wrong with it and if they were dealing with it already and she gave them her valid description then they have decided to take a look. Maybe they want a close up view of the start of the wear and tear?

We all know how much our pleo cost, be they the ugobe or the RB.. none of them are cheap. 
It is very disappointing to see them deteriorate so quickly.  When someone sees the start of such deterioration and has seen the same thing progress through pictures of other Pleo, including the pictures of the start, which may look very similar to what the wear looks like on their pleo, and folks who have had to return them time and time again, why wouldn't they get worried, why wouldn't they want to discuss returning it.  If the company has an issue with it, they will take it up with the customer.  If it starts to become a problem, they will handle the problem,  Perhaps by requesting pictures or perhaps by instituting some sort of policy where, if the Pleo they received does not show 'real damage' the customer must pay for all fees. Shiping both ways.. time for handling.. etc.

No one said that 'all pleo's should be returned' at some point.. we are all hopeful that ours will last. 
I, myself would love to be able to send one of my ugobe to get re-skinned with one of the new skins, or just purchase a skin from them to put on one of mine, (never gonna happen, I know) but if it DID, I know I would have to pay for such a thing and it wouldn't be cheap.. nothing wrong with me asking them about that either.  AND, if they do fixes and reskins after the warranty, for a fee, (unless it's something they know is rediculous that shouldn't have been able to happen) they would be making money. I don't expect it would be cheap for us, but, as degers said, it is explained that there will be damage over time and that's something we have to expect with an ever evolving robot like this, especially with the skin with they seem to be continually trying to make better.

Lets just all be cool and, Kristy, if the person you spoke to knows exactly what the issue is and still said it was ok to send it in then you should not feel bullied out of doing it. No one here is all knowing, everyone learns new stuff everyday.

Ehschw76, there is nothing to feel 'to blame for' ... there is no situation.  We are not creating a problem.  The only problem we could create is to stop buying the products and as many problems as they can get.. I don't see many of us doing that

Thank you very much.

So, enough of that, I hope everyone is having a good day and isn't drowning in water from all the snow melting like I am.

 - Sarah

[PWOKristy]

Thank you Latrine.

[Belgium]

Thanks indeed.
As you said, nobody blames pleo's price, but it is normal to expect a good quality product.
I like the propositions above about a reunion of pleo owners, to discuss our experience with Innvo Labs! (even if I imagine they all have at least one and already do that between them )