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[kingdruid]

I've search online everywhere and other than a few post of people saying some guy on another forum fixed pleo's neck before I have not found anything at all with a how to on how to repair the cable. I bought this pleo on ebay and because it came with a bad battery that only lasted like 20 minutes I wasn't able to tell that the neck was broken. I thought the battery was just low so it was in a tired state. I now fixed the battery and discovered its actually broken.

So I'm starting this thread and will post pictures while I repair the neck on my pleo.

So here is the problem:

Cable snaps or tears due to constant rubbing or being pulled:

As you can see the neck on my pleo is broken in 2 places. The side cable and top cable.

I noticed the cable just kinda spins around the servo to the oposite side. Bottom cable goes around the servo then to the top. The left side cable goes around the other servo then to the right.

The teared part of mine was actually pulled into the servo. I can imagine this probably happens to everyone because as you continue to use pleo it will just wind the cable inside the servo if it has nothing to pull.

So I opened mine up and pulled the cable out:



So right now I have the cable out and have been thinking of what I can use to put it back together. I though of solder, but then i thought its just going to snap it off because it would have to be a thin piece of solder. The reason why it would have to be a small amount of solder is because the cable does wind around a gear inside the servo. If it was a high amount of solder it would probably get stuck in the gears.

What I wouldn't mind doing is replacing the entire cable, but I'm not sure what cable to replace it with or where I can purchase some strong cable or atlease the same type of cable.

Here are some more pictures:







So another thing is I'm not really sure what caused it to tear. I figured it was either the coupler at the end of this thing in the picture below. If it is I thought of replacing it with some tube styrene, but I'm not sure if its actually what caused the problem. I think it may be the couplers at the end of this piece.

[kingdruid]

Ok so I'm leaning towards replacing the entire wire.

I found a great article online describing the different types of wires:
http://www.potters.org/subject60622.htm


This site sells "Safety Wire", but I'm not sure what gauge to buy? What do you guys think is the gauge of the pleo wire? I want to use something a bit stronger. I may just try to measure the tube in the picture above somehow to see what gauge it can take.
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/menus/ap/safetywire.html


Actually it looks like measuring is a lot harder than it sounds:
http://music-electronics-forum.com/t9407/

If anyone knows the gauge of the wire that would help me out a lot.

Thanks

[kingdruid]

Yeah at this point I'm not sure what type of wire I should be buying. "Safety Wire" is not multi stranded, but I can't find the same type of wire that was used in Pleo online.

Any help would be appreciated.

[fancyfont]

This is another pleo, Piki that had his neck repaired.  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CCJqQuwW5d0 

[kingdruid]

Yeah I've seen that, but the video is in a different language and I don't think he ever shows what he did to fix the wire.

But on a good note I think I found a bunch of replacement wires on amazon. I think I'm going to order like 5 feet of each and see which one is better.

 Shopping Cart Items--To Buy Now     Price:      Qty:
Item added on October 29, 2009



   
3/32 Wire dia., 7x7 Strand, 920 Breaking strength, Cable, Uncoated, Galvanized Steel (1 Foot) - Reid Supply Company
Condition: New
In Stock
Shipped from: Reid Supply Company
   $0.11

   
Item added on October 29, 2009



   
1/16 Wire dia., 7x7 Strand, 480 Breaking strength, Cable, Uncoated, Galvanized Steel (1 Foot) - Reid Supply Company
Condition: New
In Stock
Shipped from: Reid Supply Company
   $0.11

   
Item added on October 29, 2009



   
3/64 Wire dia., 1/16 Coating OD, 7x7 Strand, 270 Breaking strength, Cable, Clear Nylon Coat, Gal'v. St. (1 Foot) - Reid Supply Company
Condition: New
In Stock
Shipped from: Reid Supply Company
   $0.17

   
Item added on October 29, 2009



   
1/8 Wire dia., 7x19 Strand, 2,000 Breaking strength, Cable, Uncoated, Galvanized Steel (1 Foot) - Reid Supply Company
Condition: New
In Stock
Shipped from: Reid Supply Company
   $0.24

   
Item added on October 29, 2009



   
.036 Wire dia., 7x7 Strand, 150 Breaking strength, Cable, Uncoated Cable, 304 Stainless (1 Foot) - Reid Supply Company
Condition: New
In Stock
Shipped from: Reid Supply Company
   $0.25

   
Item added on October 29, 2009



   
.009 Wire dia., .014 Coating OD, 3x7 Strand, 10 Breaking strength, Cable, Clear Nylon Coat, 304 Stain. (1 Foot) - Reid Supply Company
Condition: New
In Stock
Shipped from: Reid Supply Company
   $0.29

   

[Echo]

Glad you wrote in.  Good photos.

You hit the key questions. What to use to replace the steal wire?
When Innvo Labs redesigned the cable shift for the 2009 version they used the same gauge wire because they believe that wire is best combination of strength and flexibility for this application.   That said I know the electrical wire in the Pleo is 22 gauge, but i am not sure about gauge of the pulley cable. I have ask pleoworld, and the guys there are not sure. They tell me that is more of a thing that the people at Jetta, the manufacture would know.  Have you called a local big hardware chain store and ask if the stock steal wiring?  Nothing beats a hands on assessment of different wire gauges and materials.   Be aware that if you use a stronger gauge steal wire it will be less flexible and perhaps more prone to breakage in a pulley system.

For my repair, I considering various types of wire safety wire, luxilon wire, duraflex wire, and flexible trip wire used in land mines.  The trip wire is the most flexible and strong I have come across so far. You may be able to find some at a local army surplus store.  Of course, asking around for trip wire for land mines may get you a visit from homeland security, but isn't your Pleo worth it? (ha ha)

The approach I am working in repairing my Pleo's neck involves reinforcing the places in the pulley wire system that are most under stress. I don't want to solder because that would weaken the bonds in the very thin wire too much.  Instead, I am looking at epoxy as a means to bind a support wire to my base wire in key areas.

As I at the same point in the process you are, I don't have a tried and true procedure and materials list yet....

Continue writing and posting photos...

[kingdruid]

Yeah support was not help at all.

I asked for replacement wires and they said no. So I asked if they can tell me what gauge the current wires are and they told me that was proprietary information........

I think I may just replace the wires with one of the wires from Amazon then run it like that for a while and see if it breaks again. Hopefully the tail isn't broken also, I didn't take the skin completely off so I can't tell for sure.

I was thinking the 3/32 will probably be the closest, but well see when they get in.

[allosaurus]

Oh, god darn, this might be what happened to Olympia... I have a bad battery too..... I thought it was the battery... What if her neck is broken!? 

I couldn't spill all my feelings into even a five-page-long poem right now.... There's just so much going on in my life, and it can get really, really, stressful!

[mweed]

In jewelry making, I often use multi-stranded steel wire.   Check your local craft stores.  I use a .018 nylon coated 47 strand steel "cable"  that is very flexible and rated for over 10kg.  Don't know how that compares to anything you're looking at.  They have a .024, and probably make thicker as well.


And Allo,  Let's get that battery fixed before worrying about the neck.  The neck may be fine!  And that's just added stress you don't need!  And a five page poem?  Hmmm.... sounds like an "epic" challenge!  I stick to the five line poems myself.

[Echo]

mweed, Thanks for the Jewlery making idea.  I'll check it out.  It makes sense that nylon coated multi-strand steel wire would be superior to standard steel wire.

Allosaurus, Get Olympia a new battery when you can.  Until then don't worry.  If after she has her new battery she needs more help just post on the forum under problems and I will help.  A good thing about Pleos is that most health problem they have can be fixed.

[kingdruid]

Ok quick update. I received my shipment and obviously most of the cables won't work.

Here are some pictures of the closest sizes:

.009  (This is really thin. Feels like string)



This one is .036



I think the original cable is .032 so .036 is just a little bit thicker and should hold up longer. I also didn't have any problems bending the cable so I think it should go around the servo just fine. I'll give it a try and post some pictures showing how to replace the entire cables.

[gucci_boi7782]

Thank you so much for posting this! This could definitely come in handy!!

[fancyfont]

We might have to call Echo, Dr. Echo and Kingdruid, Dr. Kingdruid.

[kingdruid]

Alright so I was able to get most of this done and it took me about an hour.

Unfortunately my camera was acting up so I didn't take that many pictures, but I'll explain it as much as I can.


After you remove pleo skin there is a top which cover which also needs to be removed. It's pretty straight forward you first have to unscrew the top black cover then you can move the front side of pleo's body forward. After you have enough room you can unscrew the top white cover. MAKE SURE YOU SAVE THE PARTS AND REMEMBER WHERE EACH SCREW GOES.

Most of the screws throughout the first are the same, but its still important to remember what goes where.


You will get to the first servo which is in the pictures I posted from the first post. Here they are again:



Now on the belo picture I've already remove some screws that held down the spring funnel for the wire:



Now these are of course the steps I took because both my wires where cut up.

I started off by peeling pleo's head skin back enough to remove the screw that hold his head onto his neck:


You'll notice that the cables are held down because of a metal piece at the end and it is melted into the plastic piece at the end of pleo's neck





What you have to do is first remove the top servo which controls the up and down movement before you can fix the left/right servo. I can see a problem here is if it is only the left/right cable ripped because it will be almost impossible to remove the servo without cutting the cable.

Another problem is the servo's motor cable cannot be disconnected so after you unscrew it it has to just kinda hang there. I'm sure you can probably trace it back and disconnected if you peel the entire skin and find the end, but I didn't want to do that.

So the top servo has enough slack for you to just leave it hanging off to the side, but the left/right servo is really in there.

First there is 2 screws on top holding it, but you also have to unscrew the servo from the bottom. Now I found that it wasn't too hard if you just unscrew his 2 front legs first, by unscrewing the 3 side screws that hold it down:


Now on the right side there are 2 screws holding the servor down. One on each side of his leg. On the left side there is only one screw.

After you remove the screws and try to pull the servo out you may accidentally rip the motor cables off like I did because of how short they are. (I soldered longer wires to the end then attached them back to the motor)

To tell you the truth it was a lot easier just letting the cable rip off then soldering it after I fixed the servo cable.

Ok so you pull the left/right servo out you can flip it over and remove the 3 bottom screws holding it together then open it up.

I recommed you note what gear goes where before and after you pry open the servo. It's kinda easy to put back together, but it can get confusing if you didn't pay any attention to where the gears where:


Now here is the fixing part. The servo has one gear that has the wire cable wrapped into it:


The cable has a small crimped piece of metal holding it in the middle.

What I did was use an x-acto knife to pull it out then the cable will go with it.

After that is the fun part which is pushing your cable through the small holes on the gear which is extremely annoying. After that you turn the gear and it back on the servo and push the cables out the plugs.
Another thing is make sure the gear is centered when putting it back together. The reason why is so that you can straighten out his neck and attach the cables while the servo is centered.


One thing you'll notice is I didn't add a crimped piece of metal like the original. What I did was wrap a small piece of clear tape around the top of the cable and pushed it back into the groove on the gear.
The cable I used was thicker than the original so it first tightly in the grooves and the tape allowed it to fit tightly on the top. I pulled at it a bunch of times and it would not move so I am pretty confident that it will hold.

This is a picture of the completed left/right servo:


After that make sure you put the spring funnel thing back onto the bottom of the motor. I put tape on mine to stop it from moving in the future just in case that tears the cable again.


Sorry this is where my camera started acting up. The top/bottom servo is pretty much the same and is actually a little bit easier, just make sure you have the bottom wire cable run through the picture above before you start or else you will need to pull the bottom servo back out to feed the wire through.

I do have one picture of the front cable on the servo:


Another thing is make sure you leave enough slack coming out to pleo's neck on each cable. I didn't check the cable on one of them and had to start over because the cable didn't reach the end of pleo's neck.

Now the last thing I have to do is attach the cables to the end of pleos neck. I did test it out though and turned pleo on after I reassembled everything and it pulled each end of the cables perfectly.


So what I did for now is crazy glue the cables back onto pleo's neck, but for some reason the servos do not move anymore. They moved at first, but then when I had to take it apart again to rerun the cables it stopped moving. I then waited for a day and they started moving again, but I realized the left/right cable was disconnected to I opened it up again to fix it and now they are not moving again. I strongly believe it has to do with the sensors that check the motors because the hip motor in the middle is also not moving and I think its because its not aligned or something.

This is probably my fault because I turned on pleo while the servo's where not seated where they should be.(I wanted to test it)

I connected to pleo using the monitor instructions in the PDK and the status for joint 8(hip), joint11(Neck1) and Joint12(Neck2) say they are stalled. Last time it just started working after a day of being off, but well see. If anyone has any idea's on why the motors just stalled I'm welcome to ideas on how to reset pleo and tell him to start over or something. I also noticed that another joint I think it was 7 stalled then returned to normal after a few minutes.

I think the motors are fine and the gears are fine, but its like pleo's brain thinks they are still stalled and will not try to move them again to check if they are ok now.

[fancyfont]

The surgery went fine, but the patient isn't waking up!   Oh no!   What fantastic photos, and it is nice to have someone here trying to fix pleo's necks. I wish I had the skill to attempt this, too. I'll send good vibes to your pleo for complete recovery.

[Echo]

Try reinstalling OS 1.1 and see if that resets the Pleo. I think you are correct that turning the pleo on while the servos were not seated correctly would stall it out. If it is all back together correctly now, then I would try the standard downgrade/ upgrade OS procedure. Have you tried running him on an SD card?   If there is no joy with that, I will look at the servos  and sensor connects in mine and come of with some hardware checks for you.  Maybe a while though because when I started to work on my Pleo, my wife. let's say strongly,  pointed out that it was curious that I had time for that when I did not have time for so many other repairs and work around the house that she had been asking me to do for the longest time....    Bottom line, I have to get the house in shape first. I will help you out when I can...

[kingdruid]

Try reinstalling OS 1.1 and see if that resets the Pleo. I think you are correct that turning the pleo on while the servos were not seated correctly would stall it out. If it is all back together correctly now, then I would try the standard downgrade/ upgrade OS procedure. Have you tried running him on an SD card?   If there is no joy with that, I will look at the servos  and sensor connects in mine and come of with some hardware checks for you.  Maybe a while though because when I started to work on my Pleo, my wife. let's say strongly,  pointed out that it was curious that I had time for that when I did not have time for so many other repairs and work around the house that she had been asking me to do for the longest time....    Bottom line, I have to get the house in shape first. I will help you out when I can...

lol yeah I totally understand. I told her this is for the kids so she hasn't bugged me about it. Yeah I'll probably try downgrading the OS then upgrading it back to 1.1. I wonder if that resets your pleo's personality? I'm hoping it does because if it does it will most likely reset everything not just the personality.

[Echo]

I appreciate the empathy, man.  

Here is a downgrade link http://bobthepleo.com/forums/index.php?topic=384.0
Also, see the download threads in pleo software for more up to date info, and you can download an earlier OS from pleoworld.com or this forum.
If you use OS 1.0 it should reset everything including personality.
I have never downgraded, but I think that is your best bet.  Good Luck. Let me know how it goes.

[kingdruid]

I have to find another SD card to downgrade it. I don't think Pleo can read the SD card I have.

I then though maybe stalled really means stalled. I opened up pleo again and hooked up a small battery to each of the servos. I made them turn clockwise then counter clockwise to loosen up the motors. I hooked it all back up and it is now moving all 3 motors. Pleo probably only sends a certain amount of voltage and if it can't move it then it stalls.

I need to add some more grease to them to make sure they are loose enough. Another thing is the top/bottom motor is clicking on me. Like its trying to go beyond the limit of the servo. So I think I may take that one apart again and make sure everything is ok on it. It could be the sensor it uses to determine what position the motor is in. That sensor may think the motor is not at the limit and still trying to go past that.

[Echo]

pleoworld recommends an SD card of less than 1 GB in capacity.  Pleo really seems to like the smaller ones better.

That confirms that the servos are ok. Nice test.

Grease is useful, but I don't think that is the problem. The clicking of the motor makes me thing that it is one of 2 things-- 1 something is not grounded or seated properly or 2 since you turned it on when the servos were not properly seated, it is stuck on that reading and just needs an OS downgrade/upgrade to reset .   Everything you have told me comes back to that and makes sense as to why the motor would click, but not turn over.

[kingdruid]

Thanks I'm going to try downgrading as soon as I find a small SD card.

[kingdruid]

I downgraded and the servo still kept snapping.

I opened it up again and found there was another small part in the servo. It's like a small clip that fits in the same groove the wire cable fits into. I think it goes in in that grove on the opposite side where the wire comes out... Well either way the small piece was sitting in the servo and may have been preventing the gear from moving or something, but now that I plugged it all back in the servo's stopped responding (stalled) again so I can't tell if that is what it was. I'll have to play around with it later and see if I can get it to start using the servos again. I also couldn't find that small clip for the left/right servo so if it does need it for some reason this will now be the end of my repair attempt.

Fixing Pleo's neck may be more difficult than just changing the wires like its been reported as fixed.

It would be nice if they just let us buy the entire neck piece. I bought this pleo from Ebay for $100 (used, but new) for my kids birthday. I was pissed off when it got here and the battery only lasted for 10 minutes and all these months I thought the neck was not moving so much because of the battery. I guess you get what you paid for and I should have just paid the extra 70 dollars and bought the one that said it was new, but I guess I should have not been as understanding as I was when the seller explained that "The battery probably just needs to be charged or you may need a new one".

[kingdruid]

Here is that small piece I mentioned in the post above. It's funny how I didn't even notice it in the picture I took.

[Echo]

Maybe I misunderstood. I thought when you hooked up a battery the servos ran fine.  My recommendations were based on that which I guess was an incorrect assumption. Was the servo assembly that was snapping all along?  I must admit it hard for me to follow from still photos even though you take very good pictures.  IF you are able and not too frustrated, could you take a video pointing to and explaining what you just said about the trouble with the servo?  I wish I was actively working on mine right now so I could be of more help.  Play around with him as long as you are enjoying the experience. Hopefully, it will all work out.  You were careful. You followed a logical course of action.  You did well, and if not for the last piece to the puzzle... 
Anyway, don't trash him.  If you get to a point where you don't want to work on him anymore consider sending him to me.  When I work on mine, I can put them side by side which should help determine what needs to be done.  If I can I'll fix him for you, I will gladly.

[kingdruid]

Yeah I'll try to take a video when I get a chance. The servo was functioning fine and moving back and forth with no problem. I don't think the servo was really malfunctioning because it worked when I tried it out, but that piece was sitting in there next to the gear with the spring on it. I'm not really frustrated just pointing out that changing the cable on Pleo is more harder than it sounds. The servo and everything is working fine its just something in Pleo (most likely sensors) are picky when you put everything back together.

Do you have a picture of your gears? I wanted to confirm that the small clip piece goes on the same gear that the cable loops around.