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Author Topic: Pleo does not work after a long break  (Read 1820 times)

markishka

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Pleo does not work after a long break
« on: April 22, 2020, 11:03:38 AM »

Good day. I'm here for the first time. I have read many topics, but I cannot understand the problem.
Bought old Ugobe Pleo. Said there was only a broken battery, we fixed and he is working. But the Pleo does not start, there is no sound after switching on. When turning, a small click appears, and he repeatedly moved his tail, leg and head.
Dino-Mite sees the Pleo as a device, but does not move it.
Probably does not see the SD card (1 GB). I tried to load Pop_demo in it. And Disable_Battery too, since Battery_diagnostics shows 138 ° F, though Pleo doesn't even warm.
Does this looks like a mechanical breakdown? Help me understand what it is.
P.S. I'm sorry. I do not know English well.
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pnhicks

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  • Pleo(s): None of mine stay in one piece long enough! :((
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Re: Pleo does not work after a long break
« Reply #1 on: April 23, 2020, 04:20:13 AM »

Hi Markishka,


When you connected your pleo to the computer using dino-mite, did you have the three files from the static folder on the sd card: pleo.urf, pleo1.urf and static.wav?


This sketch is meant to keep your pleo from moving about while connected to dino-mite so it doesn't rip out your usb cable.  The wav file plays a short intro like "DINOMITE- STATIC" or something like that just to let you know that the program is running as the pleo shouldn't "do anything" and remain in the "packing" or neutral position.


Can you let me know how you ran dino-mite?


Cheers,


Peter
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markishka

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Re: Pleo does not work after a long break
« Reply #2 on: May 02, 2020, 05:08:54 AM »

Hi Peter. Thanks for the answer.
My husband couldn't resist and dismantled Pleo) - understands electronics a little.

The impression was that the processor did not start. Sometimes there is a reaction to the position sensor. I do not know how to explain this... see video https://drive.google.com/open?id=19MDJI3wQek3s6k7qBpzldgE-0dCBRjdA
When you change the position of the positioning sensor - on the power chip, a voltage appears and then disappears again.

Dino-mite was launched with the files pleo1.urf and static.wav and pleo.urf. There was no reaction. Dino-mite gives errors.
There may be a problem with the batteries. may not have enough power. Among 6 batteries (1.2v) 4 new and 2 old. Maybe that's the problem. We're looking for where to buy new batteries.
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pnhicks

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Re: Pleo does not work after a long break
« Reply #3 on: May 02, 2020, 11:15:50 AM »

Hi Marskishka ans husband!


Brave fellow your husband!  See attached video of my pleo without the vertical/horizontal/shake position sensor installed.


Next I'm going to try and see what the output across the 5 volt regulator is (it should be 5 volts right?)  The data sheet should tell us the minimum input voltage to maintain the output voltage stable (I would guess at least 1.5 volts higher than output, ie 6.5 volts, 6*1.2= 7.2v battery voltage)


video link:  https://1drv.ms/v/s!As6F3Yo9RNKWu3XsGtAArKzhHZ5N




Cheers!


Peter
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pnhicks

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  • Pleo(s): None of mine stay in one piece long enough! :((
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Re: Pleo does not work after a long break
« Reply #4 on: May 02, 2020, 12:19:13 PM »

Hi again guys,


Not a fixed voltage regulator, but adjustable with an external voltage divider circuit, same idea, it's set for 5 volts! Part number LM2941S


Datasheet info:   
https://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/lm2941.pdf?HQS=TI-null-null-mousermode-df-pf-null-wwe&DCM=yes&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Feu.mouser.com%2F&distId=26


Looking a chip with ground to left side and pins on left:
top pin = regulated output (on my Pleo running Static skit from dino-mite) 5.09V +/- .09v
2nd pin= input voltage (assume battery voltage) 7.75 (datasheet minimum 6.0)
3rd pin= ground for voltage divider
4th pin= on/off logic (was 0 volts- low goes high at 2 volts shutting down regulator for thermal/overvoltage/reverse polarity protection)
5th pin= adjustment voltage (set by external voltage divider circuit ) measured at 1.26 V


hope this helps!


Peter 8)

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pnhicks

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  • Pleo(s): None of mine stay in one piece long enough! :((
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Re: Pleo does not work after a long break
« Reply #5 on: May 03, 2020, 03:09:03 AM »

Hi Team,


This is now our project to get your pleo working!  I tried to emulate your video exactly (well almost) measuring the regulator output while turning the vertical/horizontal sensor thorough 360 degrees and shaking it.


On my Pleo the voltage remained constant 5.02 volts -.07 volts from yesterday when the sensor was not connected at all.  It could be today my tester probes made better contact than yesterday when I was afraid that I was going to explode something! :o


Have done any other tests? 


I have LOTS of pleo and RB spare parts (my wife is not happy about that  :( )


Cheers from Spain


Peter
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markishka

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Re: Pleo does not work after a long break
« Reply #6 on: May 04, 2020, 01:38:19 PM »

Hi Peter. Thank you for your help.

It`s markishka`s husband write :) My name`s Hennadii.

I tried connecting Pleo from a 7.2 V power supply. Can it work without a connected temp sensor?


https://drive.google.com/file/d/1R54rjqEW-iBig0pR5UMeO-TqUYQgxD5e/view?usp=sharing

Picture on link. It is visible that on element 1 the voltage stable in all situations, on element 2 the voltage changes while turning the vertical/horizontal sensor. Do you have the same data on element 1 (stabilizer)?


I can't also figure out what Dino-mite errors mean. https://drive.google.com/file/d/1OMEViubFsE6e1kUEOivfCqTpOXKnOT_8/view?usp=sharing

I really want to fix Pleo. The son waits and dreams)


Greetings from Ukraine


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pnhicks

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Re: Pleo does not work after a long break
« Reply #7 on: May 05, 2020, 05:26:19 AM »

Hi Hennadii,


I am attaching some pictures of the power supply I use for testing my Pleo.  I have a old battery case from a nicad battery that I use to hold the test leads in place.


It will take me most of the day to check the voltages you sent me as my sweet wife has deleted ALL of her phone data to make room for more pictures of the grandchildren :o dinosaur1.gif.


Here are pictures of the setup with a 10K resistor acting as the battery temperature sensor.  I will try it with the resistor removed and see if it works. I think it might.


https://1drv.ms/u/s!As6F3Yo9RNKWu3cNW_-kXkNJoNrx?e=BaPuj5
https://1drv.ms/u/s!As6F3Yo9RNKWu3i36GQfIeS9V4Xv?e=dQSnef
https://1drv.ms/u/s!As6F3Yo9RNKWu3mioAr_6_xBI9l3?e=IurQOl
https://1drv.ms/u/s!As6F3Yo9RNKWu3oxotrnhFTaTEVx?e=nXRDVK
https://1drv.ms/u/s!As6F3Yo9RNKWu3sXmmgOlA_AFHtk?e=j0PKEG


Cheers!rootbeer.gif


Peter
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pnhicks

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Re: Pleo does not work after a long break
« Reply #8 on: May 05, 2020, 10:38:26 AM »

Hi Hennadii,


Your photo, 5.jpg, chip 1 is a 3.3 voltage regulator (LM2937L 3.3) so pin 1 is Vin, ie battery voltage 7.2 volts in your case and pin 3 is Vout 3.3 volts and we are happy (probably for the processor ATMEL 91SAM7S256).


Chip 2 (LM2941) is not so happy, same 7.2 battery voltage on pin 4, so that's good, pin 5 is the output (should be steady 5 volts as set by voltage divider across input power (which looks good and steady?), but it is not??.


What I meant to say was the battery (Vin ) is stable, but Vout is not.  While this chip will allow voltage to drop to source more current, we are not in a high current draw situation while running the static skit!


Pin 4 is used to turn off the power if something is really wrong (5 volts means, it received a "signal" to shutdown).


Moving on the dino-mite, I'm no expert on the motion files, but there is a CRC error (possible corrupted file) when it tries to load a file related to a motion control algorithm.


Did you try to run STATS ALL and look at the output? You can also view the directory of the ram, (not the sd card) to compare to a working Pleo.


I'm going to attach a document for you to look at that may help.


https://1drv.ms/b/s!As6F3Yo9RNKWu3037fm3FQzr75J9?e=jKroZJ


Cheers!


Peter


P.S.
I took out the 10 K resistor out of my power supply and it still works fine , but 7 volts works better than 8!


« Last Edit: May 07, 2020, 03:52:15 AM by pnhicks »
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pnhicks

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  • Pleo(s): None of mine stay in one piece long enough! :((
  • You can't break what's already broken!
Re: Pleo does not work after a long break
« Reply #9 on: May 07, 2020, 06:19:35 AM »

Hi Hennadii,


Three new pictures for you today! :)


I have successfully tested my Pleo test platform!  Thanks to you!  I have tried to do this for years and have been afraid to try, but now its working!


It has just the head (poor thing), the motherboard, the two plugin daughter cards (joined at the bottom by the DC in board), then you have the flat cable with two ferrite chokes going to the main aft body board which in turn has a ribbon cable connecting it to the tail board!


There are no servos (except in the head) , (He opens his eyes, a little bit scary), or touch/shake/tilt sensors.


https://1drv.ms/u/s!As6F3Yo9RNKWvE0qpYMSMd39iUsn?e=9zIwHg
https://1drv.ms/u/s!As6F3Yo9RNKWvEvkj10YuwXf3Iod?e=zHnUdd
https://1drv.ms/u/s!As6F3Yo9RNKWvEylN_xvUnXqhd6c?e=VQOWu0


Cheers!


Peter
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pnhicks

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  • Pleo(s): None of mine stay in one piece long enough! :((
  • You can't break what's already broken!
Re: Pleo does not work after a long break
« Reply #10 on: May 08, 2020, 12:28:45 PM »

Hi Hennadii,


I finally figured out the corrupt or missing file on your Pleo (I think). The file is called SYS_STATS.SSF.  Take a look at the list of files on the internal rom using dinomite and see if anything looks strange.


Cheers!


Peter
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markishka

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Re: Pleo does not work after a long break
« Reply #11 on: May 08, 2020, 01:49:21 PM »

Hello, Peter.

We have ruled out a possible problem with the batteries. Now all of them are new.

STATS ALL is a team in Dino-mite, right? Unfortunately, I didn't understand enough about those data.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1E16B9IwdTtbhOhSg2lsyr_4K3vRvjseC/view?usp=sharing


Thank you for your tests and photos.

From your message "pin 5 is the output (should be steady 5 volts)" it Turns out here and the problem? Need to find what gives the signal to disable.

Important information: our Pleo always shows the battery with overheating. It seems that the Pleo can't even see the temperature sensor.
I tried to connect with a 10K resistor (fake sensor).Then I experimented and closed the sensor altogether. Indicators do not change.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1jrtGMB7F7GhZVY1yC1v9ai43MQxQ7SWR/view?usp=sharing


The SD card is also not visible :(

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1e8TXwNkf_6_NbBrlW75JnNPIHx09Q30k/view?usp=sharing


P.S. I just read your last message. I will search for internal rom in dino-mite :o :D
« Last Edit: May 08, 2020, 02:04:36 PM by markishka »
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pnhicks

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Re: Pleo does not work after a long break
« Reply #12 on: May 09, 2020, 02:58:08 AM »

Hi Hennadii,


Stats All is a command from Pleo's Monitor, I will attach the Pleo monitor guide again to this post, but from the intro:


https://1drv.ms/b/s!As6F3Yo9RNKWu3037fm3FQzr75J9?e=wPxMWF


"The Pleo Monitor is a software module built into the Pleo firmware. It allows access to almost all Pleo functionality - including the current status of most subsystems within Pleo – from a standard terminal program running on a PC"


Dino-mite lets you use a "subset" of the monitor commands.  The developer, Mike Bauer, wanted to protect users of his software from the most powerful (and potentially dangerous to new users) commands.


Stats All returns information that nobody understands every line of, but does give us an idea of what happened in poor Pleo.


At the moment, I'm not too concerned about battery temp, maybe I will return to visit this issue, but it is secondary.


Pleo is not booting, no files are open and there was a file integrity error during the boot. 


I will attach a stats all print from a booted Pleo for comparison.


In Pleo monitor there is a file system, but note (very important or your will go crazy like me) the directory path symbol \ is reversed to /


Again quoting the monitor manual:


There are two ‘drives’ – or ‘devices’ – in Pleo with respect to the file system. The SD Card is known as drive ‘a’ and the internal DataFlash memory is drive ‘b’. This model is taken directly from the old DOS days. So, to refer to a file on the SD Card, you may use something like: ‚a:/test.txt‛. To refer to a file on the internal DataFlash, you would use something like ‚b:/test.txt‛. Path separators should always be ‘/’. For example, a:/dir/test.txt. To refer to files at the root of a drive, you should use drive:/name.ext. For example, a:/automon.txt.


What I called "internal ROM" is actually an Atmel 45DB321D "DataFlash". 4MB flash memory (serial interface), used to store some maintenance info, and the main personality (much of the 4MB is the default personality written in Pawn.


Both Dino-mite and Pleo monitor have commands to manipulate the contents of the dataflash.  Dino-mite commands are limited to protect accidental damage to the OS.


Hope this helps!


Peter
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pnhicks

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  • Pleo(s): None of mine stay in one piece long enough! :((
  • You can't break what's already broken!
Re: Pleo does not work after a long break
« Reply #13 on: May 09, 2020, 04:02:04 AM »


Hi Hennadii,


Here is a link to my Stats All running Static skit on a Pleo (without shake tilt sensor or torso servo, and missing two rear feet sensors ) connected to 7 volt power supply, no resistor for temp sensor installed.


https://1drv.ms/t/s!As6F3Yo9RNKWvFOl0NZfFdjTBDGw?e=6JIYoy


Cheers! rootbeer.gif


Peter
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markishka

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Re: Pleo does not work after a long break
« Reply #14 on: May 09, 2020, 07:45:12 AM »

Hi again.

We found SYS_STATS.SSF on the internal rom (disk B) in Dino-mite, our list of files does not match the list from the document you sent (page47) Or maybe it shouldn't?

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1dKzCmzBT4BHQCC9L80a25F463i2OdH7H/view?usp=sharing


This can be found only if the SD card is inserted (although dino-mite continues to write "SD card is not present")   

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1GvRJ-2YcAdUSpnUkr_6IgkauDZlBn3Lz/view?usp=sharing


Really battery overheating is not to blame if your Pleo works without resistor for temp sensor.



We are trying to understand the information from your recent messages. Thanks.

Programming is much more difficult for me :-[   I don't understand how to use a Pleo monitor. I immediately thought that this is the same as the Dino-mite. But I have already read that I should find "standard terminal program running on a PC. For example, HyperTerminal or PuTTY on Windows". 


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pnhicks

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Re: Pleo does not work after a long break
« Reply #15 on: May 09, 2020, 09:59:01 AM »

Hi Guys,


I just lost a long post when I shutdown Edge by accident (oh I hate that!) >:D


I remember some of what I wrote, think...


 :-[


The file list between two pleos might not be the same as there are at least three possible OS versions (and of course they change filenames with versions). >:(


The one shown on page 47 of the Monitor Guide is an example (the monitor guide was written in the very early stages of prototype development).


My file list is almost exactly like yours EXCEPT for the file pm_drives




We could try to reflash the dataflash or copy the file from SD card, but the SD is not recognized!


We might be able to reflash via dinomite or monitor (using putty or other terminal program).


I will keep experimenting with my "extra parts"


Cheers!


Peter
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pnhicks

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  • Pleo(s): None of mine stay in one piece long enough! :((
  • You can't break what's already broken!
Re: Pleo does not work after a long break
« Reply #16 on: May 10, 2020, 05:09:54 AM »

Hi Team,


Well I keep showing how much I don't know about Pleo!  That's okay, I never said I was an expert, only that I would help :-[


It turns out that the dataflash is quite complicated.  See quote from monitor manual:


The DataFlash is partitioned into three sections for our use:


1 - Sectors 0-1: reserved for calibration, serial number and boot loader backup storage


2 - Sectors 2-55: reserved for default Pleo personality URF


3 - Sectors 56-65: reserved for an available file system


Part 3 is the "file directory"  we "see" when we view the file list of the dataflash in dinomite. 


I thought  the CRC error during boot was due to a file error in one of the files in Part three but it may be a problem with the bootloader or the default personality (if it was the default personality, the bootloader should load the dinomite skit).


There may be a way to recovery the bootloader.


Still looking...


Peter
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pnhicks

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Re: Pleo does not work after a long break
« Reply #17 on: May 10, 2020, 05:35:25 AM »

One more thing I forgot!


Try running the command CONFIG in dinomite (or you can use the litte grey gear icon on the control panel)


Here is my print out for comparison:

Build type: RELEASE
  Pleo main ARM version: 7444 - Nov 30 2007 08:40:26  This is the  Atmel firmware
 Pleo head ARM version: 7361 - Nov 15 2007 21:34:25  This is the head NXP processor firmware
 Pleo PM (DF) version: 7685 - Jan 14 2008 23:31:30      This is the default pleo personality
 Bootloader version: 7361 - Nov 15 2007 21:34:31        This is a special startup block that validates that the main Atmel firmware is valid. If so, then it will start it up. If not, it will wait for either an SD Card with a ‚pleo.img‛ firmware image, or a USB connection to initiate a DFU (device firmware upgrade) firmware transfer.

Hope this helps!
Peter


This is version 1.1 apparently



« Last Edit: May 14, 2020, 10:27:32 AM by pnhicks »
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markishka

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Re: Pleo does not work after a long break
« Reply #18 on: May 10, 2020, 02:03:21 PM »

Hi Peter.

Thanks again :)

Our Pleo have this CONFIG:

config
Pleo Hardware Configuration:
  Hardware ID: 08060F0F-332F1F27-0100240B-FFFFFAFF (0F332FFA)
  Serial Number: 110401048778
  Board Revision: 17-8
  Board Revision ADC: 529
Build Configuration:
  Firmware built for: Pleo
  Build type: RELEASE
  Pleo main ARM version: 8250 - May 20 2008 11:06:12
  Pleo head ARM version: 8250 - May 20 2008 11:07:06
  Pleo PM (DF) version: 8139 - Mar 24 2008 20:32:32
  Bootloader version: 8250 - May 20 2008 11:07:11
  Compiled in:   Thumb mode
  Resource folders:  on
Acroname Toshiba Configuration:
  TSB0: Version 28
  TSB1: Version 28
  TSB2: Version 28
  TSB3: Version 28
VM Configuration:
  Incremental mode:   off
  Code swapping:      false
  malloc mode:        false
  main vm image:      4096
  sensors vm image:   3072
  auxiliary vm image: 2560
  user vm image:      2048
>


What does this tell us?

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pnhicks

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Re: Pleo does not work after a long break
« Reply #19 on: May 11, 2020, 03:00:33 AM »

Hi Guys,


I'm not 100 percent sure, but it seems your Pleo's Personality Image is slightly older than the bootloader or the CPU Image and all three are much newer than mine.


Not sure if that means anything at all...


I may have an older version OS installed in my Pleo.  I'm going to Flash the latest version OS to my Pleo and see what changes!  This will let me experiment with some of the dinomite commands on the dataflash!


Cross your fingers!


Peter
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markishka

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Re: Pleo does not work after a long break
« Reply #20 on: May 12, 2020, 06:30:30 AM »

Hi Peter.

Our Pleo did not open through Putty :(  It opens through Arduino, but I don’t know if the Monitor Pleo instruction is suitable for this.

I did not know that we can reflash through Dino-mite. I want to try, and suddenly it works. I have not found information on this forum yet. Only through SD card.
As I understand it, the files are the same as for the SD card, only they need to be copied somewhere in Dino-mite.
I just downloaded OS 1.1. Or is better 1.0?
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pnhicks

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  • Pleo(s): None of mine stay in one piece long enough! :((
  • You can't break what's already broken!
Re: Pleo does not work after a long break
« Reply #21 on: May 12, 2020, 11:03:45 AM »

Hi Hennadii,

Sorry I didn't reply this morning (We were visiting the grandchildren after 60 days of isolation for Coronavirus! ;D )

Can you specify what is working now, the SD card , he asked hopefully?? ???


As far as which os to use, its really personal preference.  Version 1.02 is my favorite for the human robot interaction.  If you want to show off a dog that does tricks, version 2 is for you!


I am still researching the update process without SD card in case yours in still not working!


Cheers!


Peter
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pnhicks

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  • Pleo(s): None of mine stay in one piece long enough! :((
  • You can't break what's already broken!
Re: Pleo does not work after a long break
« Reply #22 on: May 13, 2020, 03:59:11 AM »

Hi Hennadii,


I found a post from a user with a "bricked" Pleo who thought he had version 1.1 installed:



Build Configuration:
  Firmware built for: Pleo
  Build type: RELEASE
  Pleo main ARM version: 8128 - Mar 19 2008 06:24:52
  Pleo head ARM version: 8128 - Mar 19 2008 06:25:46
  Pleo PM (DF) version: 8139 - Mar 24 2008 20:32:32
  Bootloader version: 8250 - May 20 2008 11:07:11
  Compiled in:   Thumb mode
  Resource folders:  on

Here we see that the main and head are the same version with the same date, the personality is 1 number higher and 5 days newer, but the bootloader is completely different (same version as your bootloader, main and head!)

Perhaps they should all be same version number?

He was trying to do an update and it failed.

I am working up the courage to start low level reset of my working pleo.  Wish me luck!

All in the name of science!

Cheers!

Peter
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pnhicks

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Re: Pleo does not work after a long break
« Reply #23 on: May 14, 2020, 10:52:30 AM »

Hi Hennadii,


The USB updater is on the forum in the OS download section just above the SD card section.  Why didn't I see it after years of looking at the SD card files?


It is a mystery to me! :( ??? %) .   I can only add in my defense, that no one pointed out , hey look stupid , there it is, right in front of your nose!


Anyway, to make a long and painful story short, I downloaded it only to find out that it refused to run on my Win 10 64 bit machine that happily ran Dinomite in WinXp SP3 emulation mode.


More pain, install Virtual box with WinXP 32 bit, install the USB firmware updater and update to 1.0.2


I and what do I find out?  I have the same OS (exactly as when I did the SD downgrade to "original" version 1??


Either they are the same or the ugrade did not take.


Attached is a photo of my screen to show I am not making this up.


https://1drv.ms/u/s!As6F3Yo9RNKWvFRuThirkbSHGRdU?e=WKUNhH




Cheers,


Peter
« Last Edit: May 15, 2020, 12:47:50 PM by pnhicks »
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markishka

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Re: Pleo does not work after a long break
« Reply #24 on: May 15, 2020, 12:20:18 PM »

Hi Peter.

Sorry that we didn't answered so long time. Quarantine here just finished and we can`t stop enjoy the walk outside :)


Now Pleo seems unchanged. "SD-card is not present" writes Dino-mite. But when it is not inserted into the Pleo , there is no information on the internal memory. That means that somehow it affects.

It is not clear why the USB is disabled when the sensor is turned over.


Thank you for the hint where to find The USB updater. I didn`t see it before.
I get acquainted with the instructions, install Virtual box with WinXP 32 bit. I will write about the result later.


Good luck with your and our experiments :D
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