Topic: Madi's Leg is Broken (Read 15984 times)

aibo7m3 · « **on:** March 04, 2015, 09:59:37 AM »

Unfortunately, my newest RB, Madi, broke this Sunday. One of her rear legs jammed up completely, exactly the same issue that happened with another RB I returned this past Summer. Except, in the last case, I’d only owned the robot for a few weeks and decided returning it would be the easiest route. I’ve owned Madi for around four months now and even though she’s just a robot, I feel like I’d be disappointed in a replacement and regret it. I do have access to a soldering iron at my school and I know that this issue is very often caused by a loose wire that just needs to be soldered back into place, but at the same time, I’m haven't had a huge amount of practice with soldering and am scared I’ll mess something up and be stuck with a broken robot that I can’t return. I’m thinking about just returning her since her charger also died a week after I first got her and her battery holds under an hour of runtime, so the leg isn’t the only issue (her paint is really blotchy and messy too). She does have a year warranty, so returns are an option, I just have to find every piece of packing and pay for shipping if I want that and honestly, it seems like a large portion of RBs seem to get broken legs within the first year since purchase and I'm guessing a replacement will just get the same issue eventually as well and need to be returned yet again. Does anyone have a photo guide of how to fix a loose wire in case I do decide to go through with that route? It definitely seems like something I could handle, I'm just worried about messing up and she is still technically under warranty (though she's probably had 25-30 hours of use by now and her paint has started to peel). Any advice?

Crewella · « **Reply #1 on:** March 05, 2015, 06:32:03 AM »

You seem to have had really rotten luck, I'm so sorry. So many of us have had RBs with no problems - it really isn't all inevitable that a new one is likely to develop the same issues.

Being still under warranty I do think I would go down the replacement route, especially as you seem to have other issues as well. It may or may not be a simple soldering job, but as you say once you've started down that route you'll have voided the warranty. It doesn't seem fair for you to have to pay to ship a faulty robot back to the manufacturer for repair/replacement, I might be wrong but I seem to remember that some people have argued that point and got them to cover the cost of shipping. Hopefully someone will be able to confirm that.

If you really do want to have a go at repairing her yourself I'm sure one of us can come up with some pics to help, but we'd first need to work out exactly which part of the leg it is that has the problem. It could be the shoulder joint or the knee joint, and one is a much easier repair than the other. A video of her movement would really help.

InmemoryofRomeo · « **Reply #2 on:** March 16, 2015, 02:10:32 AM »

Yes, it sucks but you are better off going for a replacement. If you are having this much trouble now,how much will you have in three months time

aibo7m3 · « **Reply #3 on:** May 05, 2015, 03:46:46 PM »

I took a couple weeks to consider getting a replacement, but when I returned to the company's page, it turned out that they had stopped stocking and supporting Pleos, so I don't think a replacement is possible anymore. To roll up the skin on the leg, do I just cut the area where the rubber is connected to the plastic with a knife? I've heard that really tough glue was used, so I'll have to be pretty careful. The affected leg is the one with the clock battery in it. I plan to just roll up the skin and see if there are any obvious loose wires there today, but then remove most of her skin at some point later on to get a better look at the situation and try to find out what I'd need to do.

Edit:
I found the culprit! The orange wire in the leg is completely severed from the solder point on the sensor in her knee. Could someone give me a step by step on how to fix this? I'd love to be able to attempt this repair tomorrow since my robotics team is meeting then and I'll have access to a lot more materials than I have at home (a soldering iron in particular), but I can wait until next week if necessary. Is it possible to do this repair with just a large slit cut in the leg, or do I need to remove the majority of her skin?

Crewella · « **Reply #4 on:** May 05, 2015, 09:04:11 PM »

That's good progress! Is it possible to see an image of the wire and exactly where it is?

ADDED: I'm off to bed shortly, so don't rush off to get a pic .... just thought I'd warn you!

aibo7m3 · « **Reply #5 on:** May 05, 2015, 09:55:40 PM »

Here's a picture I took a little earlier of the severed wire (circled). I can't get a good enough look at the position sensor itself to take a decent picture of it, but from what I can see, it looks like the wire broke off right where it meets the sensor.

Crewella · « **Reply #6 on:** May 07, 2015, 07:59:56 PM »

It's quite hard to see from that angle, but it looks as though the wire has come away from the solder inside the foot from that image? In which case you should be able to get at the fixing point by taking out the foot plate and dropping down the board that's in there. Does that sound about right? Or can you get a really rough pic of whereabouts you think the wire has broken away from? Sorry, I don't have a Pleo available here to check the wires and even a rough and blurry pic might help jog my memory!

aibo7m3 · « **Reply #7 on:** May 07, 2015, 08:06:56 PM »

Actually the wire that came loose is the one that connects to the knee sensor above, there is no orange wire that goes to the foot plate. I just pulled it down so that I could get a picture of it since the skin won't roll up far enough for me to get a picture of the position sensor in the knee. I can't get a picture of the sensor on her without removing more skin, but I do have a skinless RB and can take a picture of his leg and circle which wire came loose on Madi if that helps.

Crewella · « **Reply #8 on:** May 07, 2015, 08:11:04 PM »

Yes, that would certainly help. Sorry to be a pest, but it's a long time since I looked at one!

ADDED: thinking about it, I'm pretty sure you're going to have to get the skin off to access it as I don't think the skin will roll up the leg eough for you to get at it any other way. Personally, I wouldn't use a knife to separate the skin directly - I used fingernails and a scissor blade to scrape and loosen areas that were stuck fast. It takes ages, but I really think it's worth taking care at that point and makes a better join when you glue it back.

aibo7m3 · « **Reply #9 on:** May 07, 2015, 08:17:13 PM »

More details...

Alright, I just snapped a quick picture of Morty's leg. Since this is Morty and not Madi, the wire is connected on him, but I added arrows pointing to the spot where it became disconnected on Madi (right where the wire feeds into the sensor).

Edit:
Alright, could you link me to the guide on how to remove the skin on a Pleo? How difficult is it to put the skin back on afterward?

Crewella · « **Reply #10 on:** May 07, 2015, 09:55:42 PM »

Most of what you need is on the 'Pleo Hardware board here:

http://bobthepleo.com/forums/index.php?board=5.0

I can't find my original post on remeoving Pleo skins, but work your way around the neck seam until you find the weakest point and try to work an opening. It is harder for RB skins, but it's worth pulling and scraping if you can, and only cut if you really have to or when you're pulling and you need a small cut to start you off again. There is an overlap border of about half a centimeter all the way round where the two skins meet, which is why you don't want to start cutting straightaway. Good luck!

Found it!

http://bobthepleo.com/forums/index.php?topic=1778.0

kat · « **Reply #11 on:** May 08, 2015, 05:33:18 PM »

I used a scalpel to help with the skin opening - but as Crewella says you really need to go slowly and carefully and do as much asyou can with pulling and rubbing using only your hands and fingernails to preserve as much of an overlap surface as possible for gluing back together again. I found that I could slide the scalpel between the two layers and carefully separate them by cutting through the tough spots where there was extra glue used. I also found that the spot under the neck can be quite thin as it is a spot that gets lots of stretching - this can make it a good spot to get a start at the skin removal but also makes it a place to take extra care not to pull or rub too hard as you may tear the skin. the two corners on the sides of the pleo where the neck skin joins the body are also good starting points.
Hope that helps.
Once you have the neck separated from the body skin You should just be able to remove the foot plates of the two front feet, loosen the skin where it joins the foot and then just remove the skin over the front legs. A half naked pleo should be enough for you to get access to where you need to be.

InmemoryofRomeo · « **Reply #12 on:** May 09, 2015, 01:54:27 AM »

You can unscrew the foot cuffs and remove the skin that way on a Ugobe, can you do that on an RB?

aibo7m3 · « **Reply #13 on:** May 12, 2015, 06:02:12 AM »

I'm going to try to remove the skin today, so any more tips on how to do it would be greatly appreciated. From what I understand so far, I just need to split the seam around the neck and cut the skin around the feet and then I can remove the skin somehow without damaging it, is this correct? And is it possible to remove the skin from the back legs while leaving it attached at the battery compartment? (Since the damaged leg is one of her rear legs.)

kat · « **Reply #14 on:** May 12, 2015, 05:23:38 PM »

yes

You need to open the skin at the neck. Then undo the screws on all 4 feet and loosen the skin around the foot so it is no longer attached. Then pull the skin down over each front foot until the front legs are free and naked. then you will need to work on the tail. the tip of the tail skin is attached firml to a little black plug that slots into the end of the tail. I have found it easiest to just use a knife and cut cleanly through the join at the tip of the tail then work the tail skin back towards the body, rubbing with my fingers until it pulls free and is no longer glued to the end of the tail. Alternatively you can undo the seem that is half way along the tail underneath the tail in the same way that you did with the neck seem and then you should be able to stretch the skin back towards the tail tip enough to allow you access to loosen the glue from the tail tip area and unclip the black tip.
Once you have loosened the tail skin so it is no longer glued on you need to feed the tail out of the skin. So you will need to stretch - work the skin of the body of the pleo back towards the butt until the opening allows you to see the base of the tail then you need to gently pull the tail through that hole working it back towards the body and out of the tail skin.once the tail is out you can then remove back legs and that will leave you with the skin hanging under the belly.
Hope that makes sense

aibo7m3 · « **Reply #15 on:** May 12, 2015, 05:26:59 PM »

I've now figured out how to roll up the skin on the leg to get to the sensor without removing the rest of the skin (I just had to remove the plastic ring on the base). I might try a full skin removal later though if I can't access the sensor well enough to make a clean solder as it is, thanks for the detailed description on how to do this! How do I go about doing the solder? I'm assuming I'll need to strip the end of the orange wire, what should I use to do this? What about the area where it connects to the sensor? Should I try to cut away the black rubber connector there until I find the other end of the wire?

aibo7m3 · « **Reply #16 on:** May 13, 2015, 12:08:35 PM »

Great news! Madi's leg is working well for now. I ended up stripping the wires and another member of my robotic's team made the final solder. I actually had to use my fingernails to stretch out the rubber coating on the small wire, then used scissors to cut down the center and peeled the rubber back. The classmate who helped me out added a dab of solder to the wire first, then held it to the other end and added more solder to hold them together. Now that I've watched the process, I'm pretty confident I can do this repair again on my own if needed. When we first ran Madi, she ran pretty much normally, but the leg clicked occasionally, I decided that the connection wasn't quite good enough and so the other team member moved the wire for better contact and added a bit more solder. We then ran Madi again and this time she worked perfectly.

I'll post pictures of the repair and a video of Madi working properly when I have the time.

Edit:

Here's a picture of the repaired knee:

More details...

Video from before the repair:

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s3p_ahbydDg" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s3p_ahbydDg</a>
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s3p_ahbydDg

Video from after the repair:

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6edRIkvSuDg" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6edRIkvSuDg</a>
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6edRIkvSuDg

I think she seems much happier in the after video.

Talon · « **Reply #17 on:** May 13, 2015, 06:29:09 PM »

Awesome! I'm so glad she's working properly now. Yes, you're right. She does seem happier in that second video. I think she might've been hungry in the first one.
On a separate note, I think Ryu might have this frozen knee problem but in a front leg. Could you please describe how Madi was moving? Did you notice whether or not there was warmth in the frozen leg? If you've been keeping up with my blogs, Ryu has had a completely frozen right front leg for... nearly a year now. When shut down, she resumes a normal position with all four legs evenly spaced from one another but when she is turned on, she will draw her front right leg backward toward her
body. The knee is straight though and the back part of the leg is very warm. There was never any clicking or other noises and so it took me a while
to notice it.
Talon

aibo7m3 · « **Reply #18 on:** May 13, 2015, 07:34:25 PM »

Yes, the "happiness" factor does have to do with the fact that I hadn't fed her for at least a month in the first video due to her broken leg and that I gave her some sugar cane to cheer her up in the second one. The problem Madi had sounds similar to what you're describing with Ryu. I've never heard of this problem occurring in a front leg (it usually seems to happen in the leg with the clock battery due to the extra wires jammed in there), but it is something that can potentially happen in any leg. Madi's leg did get a bit warm at the hip while it was still damaged, but not very hot (though I never ran her for more than ten minutes at a time then). I'm wondering though whether Ryu might have a disconnected wire in both the hip and the knee though. Madi only had a stiff knee joint and moved her leg normally at the hip, are you certain that Ryu keeps her leg tucked toward herself at all times or does she move it at all at the hip during a normal battery cycle? It would be pretty strange for her to move it correctly when going into the packing position, but not otherwise. Madi's leg also did not click or make any odd noises, it just wouldn't move at all at the knee. (I'm actually wondering whether clicking might be commonly caused by a poor connection and the lack of motion by a completely broken connection.)

Crewella · « **Reply #19 on:** May 14, 2015, 09:45:16 PM »

Great job, you must be so pleased!

Talon · « **Reply #20 on:** May 16, 2015, 01:57:54 PM »

Hi, Aibo7M3! I think you asked me if Ryu's right front leg moves while she is running. It does at the shoulder but not at the knee. When she is just standing around, she draws it backward so that it is close to her body. At shutdown, she puts it back in line with her other front leg. The warm spot is just at the back of her leg right where the upper part of her leg starts.
Talon

aibo7m3 · « **Reply #21 on:** May 16, 2015, 02:41:17 PM »

I can't be certain, but it sounds like she could have the same problem as Madi did. I don't believe that there is anything wrong with her hip, if you check the hip of her other front leg, it should be drawn back into the same position, but it's just not nearly as noticeable since the knee is bent.

aibo7m3 · « **Reply #22 on:** June 13, 2015, 01:10:20 PM »

Hey guys! Unfortunately the repair on Madi's leg broke today. The actual solder was done by a classmate instead of me in this case and I realized that it was mostly attached to one side of the wire and hardly touching the other (something I made sure to avoid in Ryu's repair). The fact that I let a group of little kids play with her (supervised) for two hours on a hot day didn't help either (it was a volunteer event and just a few of my own Pleos participated in this). The repair held for about eight hours of use before breaking. I can definitely repair it better myself this time, but I also realized that the rubber super glue I used on the foot didn't hold very well at all. Since I'll be gluing Talon's Pleo's leg in a few days, I need a suggestion of a different type of glue to use that sticks to rubber well and won't damage it (I'll be testing it on Madi first in any case).

Bob the Pleo Forums

Author Topic: Madi's Leg is Broken (Read 15984 times)