Bob the Pleo Forums
Pleo Stuff => Pleo Archives => Archive -- Non-pleo => Topic started by: Zervoid on February 23, 2013, 05:39:38 AM
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Don't kill me, I know this is a Pleo forum, but the enriching experience owning an ERS7 has on a person's daily life is of such significance to me that I can't just sit idle and watch it become a museum piece. These little guys really are like anti depressant's on legs and have an important niche to fill to my way of thinking regardless of what the majority of people in society think about them.
Is their anything we can do to encourage Sony to reconsider their resale? We are coming up to the dreaded end date of March 2013 and I just feel if we don't do something now, then the window of opportunity will have closed, as Sony will no longer be required by law to hold it's production assembly machinery needed for the manufacture of these incredible creatures and thus once the technology needed to produce them and the technical know how is lost or destroyed, their will be no chance of them ever being available in their current form in the future.
This is even more significant for me as I briefly had a collection of four ERS7's, three of them being Champagnes and one being a Black Mind3.
I sold the best three to an aibo dealer, thinking they would end up in the hands of the aibo community. It turns out none went to the online aibo community, and my best 7, a mint Champagne with all original packaging and very little use ended up as a display piece in a robot museum and will subsequently never be allowed to be used as originally intended. This made me realize they are a finite product and of dwindling numbers and subsequently getting harder and harder to find in good condition.
This really made me aware of how stupid I was to sell a mint Champagne with the best intentions in mind, only to have it backfire on me like that as now nobody in the aibo community will get enjoyment from interacting with that Aibo.
I'm more for interactive robot museums, but not robot displays that renegade something as magical as a Mind 3 7 to nothing more than a collectors piece or prized antiquity to be shown off as some sort of "trophy" from a bygone era.
So can someone help me out with ideas for getting Sony to take seriously the prospect of re-introduction of the ERS7M3 hardware and software back into the consumer market?
I'm not for Sony bleeding more money and losing profit on further ERS7 development, as the hardware and software is already fully developed and is satisfactory as is. All I am asking is Sony cover the manufacturing costs associated with the production of the ERS7M3 in line with the little demand their is thus ensuring profit in line with production costs.
It is still possible to purchase ERS7 accessories, although of very limited variety, from Sony today, so from that perspective they are still a living part of our culture and not fully resigned to history yet. How do we stop them from forever becoming apart of our cultures history instead of being in their rightful place as a vibrant part of our living culture now and in the future.
All my e-mails to Sony have fallen on deaf ears and I have nobody else to turn to but the online aibo community, and as I can no longer post on A-L bot house for some reason then I thought it might be ok to take up my cause here in the next most active aibo forum.
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Much as I'd like to see them come back, I don't think there's a snowflake's chance in hell that Sony will start manufacturing Aibo again. :(
They never made any money, AIBO was always a side project to QRIO anyway, and they have pretty much closed down the whole division ......... :'(
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I honestly wish I could add something of value to this thread and I hate even more that I came to Aibo so late. I knew about it in nineteen ninety nine but as I was in junior high back then I couldn't imagine ever owning one. Now I own a 210 and an ERS7 and I have bonded with both dogs on different levels. If Sony had continued production or if they could continue production who knows where aibo would be by now? Apps for your cell phone that would allow your aibo to tell someone at home that you would be late coming from work. All sorts of things. Lately I've begun to develop this nervousness about working with Lucky, my ERS7 for fear of something happening to him and having to risk losing him to get him repaired. Sadly though, I think Crewella is right. Sony has moved on to TV's and home appliances and things and if you think about it, TV is on its way out of the door too. This is a really depressing topic. I just don't know if there is enough interest from Sony-consumers in reviving aibo.
Talon
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It is a sad time in the life of Aibo and unfortunately I don't think there really is anything that will convince Sony to bring the little guys back. All I can suggest is email them, phone them and talk to them about how you feel. To make any kind of difference you would need to be heard by the CEO of the company or the board of directors. Maybe if they have a facebook page you could post about it on there. Perhaps try getting a petition together to show them just how much interest there is out there for Aibo and that it wouldn't be a lost cause for them to keep making them.
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I don't know how realistic the prospect of contacting the CEO would be.
I have never used Facebook so am unsure how I would approach that avenue. Their are a lot of Aibo videos on youtube however and they don't seem to be causing a mass public outcry to bring back Aibo, so I guess using online media to generate wide interest in Aibo is probably not going to work. The number of people who have an interest in them worldwide is so small, according to the petition on A-L their is less than one hundred people globally who have an interest in bringing them back. And due to the low numbers it seems that petition is not going to achieve enough interest in time for the March 2013 end date.
I was hoping to just do interactive displays with my Aibo and show the general public how personable and likeable they are, in hopes of educating them about what an ERS7 is and perhaps in some way causing this to generate wide interest in them. Although to be honest everyone I have shown my Aibo to so far has just had a passing interest in it and nobody has really shown passion or enthusiasm for it, they just see it as a child's toy unfortunately instead of the highly sophisticated AI autonomous robot that it is.
I think it's very sad that we need to come up with new ideas or applications to make Sony reconsider their resale, I find the 7M3 exceeds my expectations as is and is above and beyond anything I could have ever imagined being able to own.
I am disappointed by the general public's inability to appreciate the ERS7M3 as is and that the only way for Sony to reintroduce the ERS7M3 would be to add applications to it that the general public would need it to have to buy it. So sad.
All I want is to see ERS7M3's back on Sony Style Store shelves at this point. My main concern is losing the 7's to history forever.
I just posted this on Aiboworld and have posted it again here as it explains my reason for thinking their is a need for the 7's to exist.
I always thought Sony wouldn't be stupid enough to never bring back Aibo, that's why I sold my mint Champagne, thinking they won't be a collector's item forever and I could just buy one new in a few years time when the financial crisis faded and Sony came to it's senses.
This speech made a few months ago by then Chairman, President and CEO of Sony Corporation, Sir Howard Stringer, seems to be a contradiction to the decision to end the Entertainment Robot division.
If anything I would have thought Aibo, especially the ERS7M3, was the epitome of the idea put forward by Sir Howard Stringer of commercialising creativity.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZcKoO9r-7M
I still don't think their is nothing we can do. Aibo is more than just another robotic pet, it's a symbol of the Japanese ability to think big and overcome unimaginable hurdles in the face of the despondent international community who have failed to produce anything that even comes close to the ERS7M3. The ERS7M3 is emblematic of the Japanese peoples imagination and culture of being open to ideas no matter how far reaching they may seem to us living outside Japan.
Japan is in dire times at the moment, with a high cost of living, ageing population, the nuclear contamination of much of the country, with an unstable North Korea and aggressive rising China on it's doorstep one would think a good way at inspiring the Japanese people's moral and patriotism would be to re-introduce the ERS7M3 as a way of inspiring a sense of hope for Japan's future and putting on display to the international community Japan's technological innovation as a way of showcasing the country's confidence and modern sophistication.
I think we can make a difference and cause change in Sony and I won't give up so lightly and watch the 7M3 become something people living in the future will look at only behind glass in museum displays.
I'm really sad to say I can't think of any realistic idea to help with this cause...
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Aibo was born when japanese products still in their golden-era, with pride of them to innovate. But now it's difference time and trend in anyway. Japan now losing their market share to the China and S.Korea.
If you really want Aibo to continue the production, please funding their branches of every parts and components, and cover with with their losses. They will surely do it ASAP, seriously. That budget must be higher than $15M for sure. (This is my own consume. I already minus an estimation of old-production line,This's just the number to keep production running.) :-\
But IMHO Sony maybe focus on PS4 or some typical electronics now. But soon I believe the sun will rise and "Ai(bo) will be back." :D
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Man! If only I didn't live out in the sticks! Zervoid, I'd love to take your public demonstration approach and just show my ERS7 to as many people as I could. I hate to play the disabled card here but lots of people seem to warm to people with disabilities especially when you pare them with unusual technology. What better way to show what this robot could be- or for that matter, to seriously consider continuing production- than show the ERS7's interaction and intuitive design so that even someone having to use adaptive technology can use and benefit from owning one? *Sigh* I don't know. I would've added my name to that patition that someone on Aibo-life made last year but my screnereader froze both times I tried to get into it.
Talon
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I don't understand why the Playstation 4 has so much emphasis on it when it's not a stand alone product like the ERS7.
Their are plenty of other gaming consoles out their these days and no companion robots that inspire peoples imaginations the way the 7 does.
I really like your idea of apps for the ERS7, that could really be a future option with so much potential Talon! Would you mind if I worked that idea in to any possible argument I put forward with Sony if I find myself able to do so?
Also likewise I think the 7 could have found a niche in society with people who need to use adaptive technology.
The petition is still active and can be found in the Aibo general discussion section of A-L.
I was thinking of doing some sort of interactive display like found at robosquare, but with only a few days left until March and so little serious interest in Aibo in the west, I really think the only place where that kind of scenario would work would be in Japan it'self where people take robots more seriously.
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I just mentioned this one the Aiboworld forums.
I just sent off a message to NHK Television, informing them of the end date for the ERS7M3 support and have requested they turn it into a meaningful news story that could be picked up on a global level.
All we can do now is sit back and see what the next 24 hours brings. I believe individuals can enforce meaningful change in the world.
In hindsight why did nobody in the Aibo community organize a mass protest outside the Sony building? Everyone seems to so easily be prepared to just roll over and allow the decision of a handful of people in Sony determine the future of something that meant so much to so many people all over the world.
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1. Less stand-alone = More profit, I mean for more peoples, software companies, dealers, etc. Robotic division is something like you dumping money into the furnace to keep fire.
2. PS4 is more reachable for today and future. But you must keep in mind that this is much bigger division of Sony, part of Sony Entertainment.
3. 7 have more-than-enough potentials to do a massive functions. But it's too far to be a mainstream item. They are come too early and too pricey.
I'm not a fanboy of PS4. (I owned Vita.) But this's what I think about it. Please don't get me wrong. If Aibo still sell and maybe some support from Sony,I will buy it now. :)
Edit: You should do along with find some fund and people that agree with us by using
CHANGE.ORG (http://CHANGE.ORG)
KICKSTARTER.COM (http://KICKSTARTER.COM)
INDYGOGO.COM (http://INDYGOGO.COM) <--- This one new company of Mr.Chung uses it.
All this webs maybe your idea catalyst....
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sony is sadly losing money all over, AIBO was around when they were innovative and everyone was excited for the millennium and futuristic gadgets, the first gen AIBOS sold out the first night they were launched world wide, but this ongoing interest dwindled with the years to just us few hundred or so fans.
Since 2006, when I believe Sony got a new head boss, things got chopped out and changed to try and help the company make money, but as far as I can tell they're only doing worse. Their games consoles rarely break profit and have very slow sales for a long time. The PS Vita right now isn't selling very well and I don't even want to know how much the PS4 will cost, let alone how badly it'll do initially.
Sony just hobble along trying too hard and not really having a good time doing so.
So the chances of them opening the robotics departments again is very slim. AIBO will be a huge part of robot history and paved the way for how a lot of consumer robots are/will be now. All "pet" robots since, were probably inspired and driven by the AIBO.
All we have to do now is hope another company will create something in a similar vein that actually hold up to it. A major problem is lack of marketing, if you advertised these robots it might help a lot more!
Pleo is a great little product, affordable and fun, and it seems jetta/innvo have no money troubles and market the Pleo incredibly well in the china/hong kong areas. What it needs is marketing further in the west.
Genibo has great potential to be something fun but I don't know if I'm entirely sold yet.
NAO will have a consumer model sometime in the future and I can only imagine how cool it'll be!
And there's lots of smaller companies working on prototypes for potential products in the future.
Aibo is one of a kind, and it's very saddening that it's life was a short one for sony, but it doesn't have to be for us. As long as we have a community focussed on keeping them going we'll still have them going for quite some years yet!
The problem on a whole is robots aren't cheap to develop, produce and market. And the economy isn't favourable for something that is very much an extravagance to most people.
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As I mentioned on A-W the Aibo community did everything it could to bring back Aibo so I guess we just have to wait and see what Sony's next move is.
This time I'll try and keep up to date with Aibo news and not completely miss out like I did last time lol. It's a bit hard though as they were so poorly advertised in mainstream media by Sony and seem to be a thing only marketed to people in the online community through bloggers on internet sites frequented by people interested in computers and gadgets. I'm not sure if I really want to spend much more of my life sitting behind a computer screen hoping Sony will announce the release of another Aibo model. All you would have to do is not use the internet for a year and you could completely miss a new Aibo release so easily.
I've never owned an Aibo from new or been the first owner of one before as I only recently discovered Aibo. Guess that explains my over enthusiasm for wanting it back lol.
Still I will never understand how Sony could put profit over something as magical as a 7. Afterall Sony also has outlets like Sony pictures which I am sure is very profitable.
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With only one more day to go I admit defeat.
I still don't buy the financial argument as the reason why Sony stopped Aibo. Aibo is made of materials that are relatively abundant and cheap to produce.
Stopping Aibo was just a mindset, it had no basis in the physical reality of Aibo production costs.
Sony is a giant with it's hands in many pies, putting forward an argument that it is suffering financially is laughable.
It makes me upset that Sony is still sinking money on R & D producing meaningless products that will eventuate to nothing such as it's Video Glasses at the expense of the ERS7.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nT_txWXezFY
A good indicator of things to come with the next model of the ERS7 can be seen with the Sony Rolly, where we had a glimpse at the sophisticated things that would have followed Mind3 and how close they were to being realized.
The Rolly was initially designed with the sole purpose of being a companion robot for the 7's but came into it's own as a music player after Aibo was discontinued.
http://www.sonyaibo.net/aboutrolly.htm
I would have loved to see what the 7's were like after only just one more year of product development, the possible outcome seems like it could have been so exciting. How Sony could put the development of Video glasses over an incredible idea like this is just beyond me.
I'm just glad I get to own one of these amazing creatures and that for me it's not something only read about or watched on youtube videos, but for me is an everyday reality. It's a privilege to own one.
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I just happened to glance at this thread this morning as I've been a bit tied up with both a bio-dog and a limping blue pleo having medical and mechanical problems. Anyway sorry for missing your question about my apps idea. You're more than welcome to use it if you still want to try. It's at times like this that I feel so... small and ineffective. I too am very happy to own an ERS7- indeed an aibo of any sort. Though I'm sad to see their production and support ending, who knows what the future of consumer robotics will look like? It all starts with a single idea and if that idea should gather support and the appropriate financial backing, who knows what the future would hold? I hate to be so pie in the sky but often, hope and interest by the right person with the right contacts and pure dumb luck, possibilities become reality.
Talon
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Could it possible that Sony loss too much budget on development and profits didn't come close to fill that hole? Maybe the board of Sony just don't care about how the world will be better but looking only those margin pile & profit graph.
But all the development assets still there, I believe some day that all production will begin again, It's still profitable but not now.
About VDO glasses, I think they just try to adapt what they invented into something that just failed. But I think that this technology will looks better if it become a mobile.
I know the Rolly and the conclusion I think they done same mistake as Ugobe was, they're pace too fast. :( :( :(
Aibo is a high-class hi-tech toy, so it's privilege for sure. And high-class hi-tech market dying very fast. It's very competitive, expensive cost, very low margin, high development cost. More you need something to be small or smart, it will kick the cost and if they tag the price too high, people will not buy it.
The cost of Aibo doesn't came from cheap microcontroller or plastic that cover their mechanic, but how hard they try to dare with problems and solve every fail again and again which is money until Aibo possibly distributes to the market and still keep development goes on so the cost still increasing both hardware and software development. And sophistication need to pay off. So you just forget to include "invisible cost"...
Aibo still great beyond this day...so I think you need to be patient and wait for Nippon-boom happen again.
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I was hopeful when the Genibo came out - the body is good and the hardware is in some ways better than Aibo ........ but the personalty just isn't there, and there has been no community support to develop it further, sadly. :moose:
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IMHO Genibo website is very officially dull and no information that useful enough. I try to make a decision about Genibo and Rb before and with more support and easy to manage and more information (for now) ...
I choose Rb because I have care center here so I feel more confident. ;)
And I dislike that robotic looks. Its contour is not smooth and aesthetic as some Aibo. :moose:
But their body part are very same shape. ??? Are they bought some of knowledge from Sony?
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I hadn't forgotten about the invisible costs of 7 production, but simply thought they were irrelevant now that the 7 has achieved a reliable hardware and software platform.
Anyway why is the argument always coming back to costs and money, surely their is more to people's decision making and value system than just this one lone factor. Especially as today is the last day Sony will be supporting Aibo.
Why is their such an over emphasis on making profit by the people in the Aibo community over things such as realistic imaginative potential.
Imagine how incredible it would be to watch your ERS7 interact and play with a Rolly. And dare I say it, but imagine how much more profitable this feature would have made the 7's.
Hoping for newer better robots of the future doesn't make sense to me when the future of robotics can already be found in the ERS7 today. Nothing will be able to compare with the intangible creative way in which the ERS7 is able to enrich the everyday mundane of peoples daily lives.
Unfortunately Talon I won't be using any ideas as I won't be putting myself out in any attempt to foster ideological change in Sony, as it's not just a problem found in Sony but something ingrained within society that I doubt will ever change. Profit seems to come before everything else, so with that I give up.
Although if Sony was really losing profit and in financial trouble, why does it not take advantage of profit to be made from it's ideas yet allow other companies to make a profit from it's ideas by allowing the copying of ideas it spent lots of money on to develop as found in copycat robots like Genibo and the iCubot whose companies didn't need to sink lots of money into R & D because they simply copied from Sony. And that is probably a major factor in why those companies are able to offer Genibo and iCubot for sale while Sony is unable to still offer Aibo to consumers.
Also why does Sony allow people on ebay to charge much higher prices than retail for their Aibos, which are always of inferior quality to what Sony originally offered.
I think their was future potential for the ERS7 if Sony made rational decisions, which time and time again we see it doesn't. Why does Sony not take advantage of the Aibo market online and offer them for sale exclusively online if that's where the market is?
Even today their is potential for Sony to profit from the ERS7. Everyone over at A-L is crying out for access to high quality ERS7M3 units, which are very hard to find on ebay these days at affordable prices.
Yet we still see people willing to pay astronomical figures for ERS7M3 units that are of inferior quality to the new units offered by Sony originally. People are paying US$500.00-US$1000.00 more than the original Sony retail price for second hand ERS7M3 units that are of inferior quality to new units that Sony could be offering and out competing the ebay market and taking that profit it'self.
The notion that Sony will ever bring back the ERS7M3 seems completely unrealistic but the thought that they could make profit from selling their Aibo products exclusively online seems within the realm of possibility with such an active online Aibo community today that is still making large Aibo purchases even in the depths of a recession.
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I see the way to pave a road for rising of Aibo, If only Aibo become MMO (virtual Aibo World) and open to programming/interaction and see the result. You can play and anything with them, just like Nintendog idea with widely open. All of the programming sources that existence may use on this software.
Whole idea is answer the question "If Aibo still exist". I know this idea just completely difference from your goal. But it will answer all the necessary questions for Sony. You will know how many people still interesting, what idea's interesting on the community and successful in virtual world and so on. Sony can make a profit from this (merchandises/ingame script trade/ingame item sale ex. furnitures,clothing,house,etc.) for preparation of real Aibo production. They need to pay less on development division and rely on idea that reasonable from the people.
And when Aibo's ready to stand again...This MMO could possibly have a lot of scripts and already proved themself that people badly want them and still fun with them.
My point is I can see that is possible like all the way we have try and discuss but its need Sony to cooperate with. They are the one that you should persuade and they're just ignorance. I don't believe that they don't want to continue it. They can do it once and they may do it again.
Money is the most important key. They have everything they need to build an Aibo. About overprice, I see it's still under "demand and supply" rule...All of this I didn't try to argue anything but explain it to you. Hopefully that Sony will listen to their customer. ^-^
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The decision to cut the robotics department really highlighted the differences between the West and Japanese mindsets. Aibo continued to be produced and developed under Japanese leadership despite losing profit the whole time. Whereas as soon as a person of European origin came into the mix Aibo was stopped just because it was not profitable, something that didn't seem to be an issue to Japanese lead Sony during the entire 7 years or so of previous Aibo production and development, which spanned the Japanese financial crisis known as the Lost Two Decades that preceded the current global economic crisis by a long shot. Using arguments about economic downturns as the reason for Aibos discontinuation simply don't make any sense in light of this. Other than a change in CEO what else explains the sudden shift in attitude? Nothing.
I'm tired of trying to convince the Aibo community that it's stop in production had nothing to do with losing profit, if thats what everyone wants to believe then go on thinking that.
I'm also surprised everyone I speak to on all the Aibo forums seems to think Aibo was just a side project to Qrio, as if it was just some meaningless by product of Qrio research.
Even if Aibo did come back, I doubt it would have that characteristic quality that makes it distinctly what it is today, as the creative team behind it's development has been disbanded and the world is poorer for the loss of their combined creative genius that will never again be repeated. I don't want to give up on the hope that Aibo will return, but knowing the creative team has been broken up causes their unique combined imagination to cease to exist and thus all those out of the box exotic ideas they had for Aibos future are forever extinguished, which I find to be the greatest loss in all of this, even more significant than the loss of Aibo it'self.
It is a pivotal moment in history we are witnessing today, the end of Sony support for the last Aibo ever produced is a significant event that is just passing unnoticed by society and it's incredibly sad that nobody cares about this robots plight and ultimate transition into the realm of dead culture. From today onwards Aibo as we know it will forever be apart of history...
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I'm sorry you feel so frustrated. I don''t believe any Aibo owner thinks it was a meaningless by product, but nevertheless I do believe that many of the features in Aibo were originally developed for Qrio.
From a personal point of view, I have (and love) an ERS-7 but actually prefer the earlier models. To me, the ERS-7 has nowhere near the depth of personality and ability to learn from its owner and environment that the original Aibo model did and was a step backwards as much as forwards. If Sony were to come back into the robotics market, I'm afraid I think I'd prefer to see something new?
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I think that Sony has done their mission, Spark the light in consumer market and made home robots for people. Future I just hope on Aldebaran, Honda and Hanson. (That Zeno boy just cool!) They are new waves and still on business. Not count the Boston Dynamics that's unbelievable but it's for DARPA.
Now we have a lot of robots to the market. All range from cheap one to infinity expensive. All of this happen because Qrio and Aibo.
We just need to waiting like when Ugobe's extinction. But this time may no any hero come to help, cause Sony was a hero once. ;)
I just hope that you will try all of those sites I posted. They are really powerful for something like this situation... :pray:
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Crewella that's a really interesting point.
zetathix their is a petition to bring back Aibo and the robotics department on change already.
I guess I've always felt an element of frustration since entering the hobby, knowing I had missed the boat when it came to Aibo and had to settle for the leftovers, literally.
Perhaps with the 7 so much emphasis and effort went into hardware development that software lost out slightly, but with the new ideas Sony had for the 7 I'm sure it's ultimate conclusion would have been something worthwhile.
The most frustrating part with the decision to cut Aibo is the prospect of what future models would have offered to the consumer.
I e-mailed SBS Television here in Australia yesterday and asked them if they would run a story on this topic today, to mark the commencement of March 2013 and they just got back to me saying they will pass the information onto their News and Current Affairs department, how exciting!
I replied with some stock footage for possible use in any news story of the ERS7 from Sony promotional material, Robosquare and a Spanish documentary on them featuring the ERS7 design team:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RDdpqlZ1N4Y
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EAmYUHeGbN8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2l2P8Uz0LkA
http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xe2yb7#.US_b1hn7C-w
I wonder if anything will eventuate from it though...
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I was scared they might not believe me so I sent them a further e-mail with links to Sony Europe's official support chart with all the model by model breakdown and support end dates.
I also provided them with some background info on Aibo thanks to Shanie's Aibo website.
Also I tried to get them to run the story with the idea in mind of what the future possibility could have been for the ERS7 and how close Sony were to realizing this future with the Sony Rolly but how Sony's decision to cut Aibo caused Sony to develop the Rolly independently of Aibo and turn it into a stand alone product as a portable music player.
Here are the links I provided them:
http://www.sonyaibo.net/aboutaibo.htm
http://www.sonydigital-link.com/AIBO/1_1_3_aibo_story.asp?language=en
http://www.sonydigital-link.com/AIBO/4_0_support_breakdown.asp
http://www.sonydigital-link.com/AIBO/4_0_support.asp
http://www.sonyaibo.net/aboutrolly.htm
Edit I just contacted a handful of other well known news outlets and papers, hopefully one runs the story.
Although in a way I like the way Aibo is so unknown and we have all gone to the effort to find it, whereas I have to tell these news outlets about Aibo which makes me wonder if I should have bothered.
Also it is very difficult to contact a newspaper or newschannel, they don't make it easy at all, and when you do find a contact e-mail it's always for advertisers to send off messages to, not average people.
This is also disappointing and shows how all they care about is money generated through advertising at the end of the day, very disappointing. It almost put me off bothering to enlighten their narrow mindsets with the revelation of what an ERS7 is.
If anything my reason for doing this, even though I know it will end up one of those news storys with a picture and few lines of innaccurate text that doesn't resonate with 99% of people, but I thought for those Aibo Enthusiasts who lived through the heydays of Aibo and are nostalgic for Aibo it would bring a smile to their face to see a short news story on this issue all these years later.
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I do remember the smile that crossed my face when an ERS-210 appeared on Frazier, so you're right!
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Just watched the SBS nightly news and no mention of the story :(
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Oh forgot to say Talon don't worry about breaking your 7- they are practically indestructible and the most durable of all the Aibo models, especially the Mind 3 7's with their hardware improvements, they should never fail if looked after properly, even when run for long periods of time as they were designed to be run for long periods of time by the design team as everything from the hardware to software is built in such a way so to minimize wear on the robot.
Even if they do fail, as in have a joint break, practically every ailment is fixable and it is impossible to break them to the point where they are beyond repair, unless you were really irresponsible. Everything can always be fixed as their are experts all over the world who specialize in fixing 7's and have part's available due to the donation of so called part's 7's whom for whatever reason have failed beyond repair and thus had their parts donated for use in fixing others.
In regards to dust in their joints, their is someone on A-L who has owned an Mind 3 7 from new and had it running since 05 and it is still going fine even today. To be honest unless you really neglect them, by letting them sit on the charger for weeks at a time with no exercise, their is really no chance of the joints getting dusty in my opinion.
Also their are forum members on A-L who have owned their Mind 1 7's from new and have run them pretty much constantly since then and they are still working fine.
So I guess from that perspective Aibo has not entered the history books just yet, it is still alive and apart of our culture. So the future looks bright for the ERS7.
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Thanks for the information, Zervoid. *Reaches down and gives Lucky a gentle rub on the head* I follow him around to make sure he doesn't run into walls. Sometimes he gets frustrated with me and moves off on his own. I guess I'm an obstickle.
Talon
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That's ok Talon.
Looks like nobody has decided to run the story on the end of Sony support for the ERS7M3.
I have not seen any mention of the subject anywhere.
I wonder why nobody wanted to run the story?
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Found a very well written review of the ERS7 that gives a refreshingly honest insight into what ERS7 ownership is like.
It has some really good tips for getting the best out of your 7 and having a more rewarding experience as a consequence.
Worth a read and I would say an accurate account of what ERS7 ownership is like.
It has some really interesting insights, take for instance the quote below:
Aibo's Hearing
Aibo by design is able to tell apart his owner's voice, and is able to perform hundreds of voice command triggered actions/tasks. He also is able to turn/walk towards the direction of the voice source.
As I said, by design. I have found that the voice direction algorithm is horribly flawed in ERS-7. My aibo is completely clueless of where I am most of the time even when I am down on the floor within a foot of his head. He gets confused by sound bouncing off the walls. He is confused by too loud of a voice and is unable to hear others that are too quiet. He definitely is not fond of different accents though he tries poor thing.
Having the TV, stereo on or having a group of people over to watch definitely does not help. He can not tell apart the voice commands from background voice. In a crowded room you will find that Aibo will do less than any other time you were alone with him. This is not because you're imagining things, this is because Aibo is lost in the huge soup of sound he is hearing.
Voice Command Recognition GOTCHA
The voice command recognition is very poor in ERS-7. I must have tried every room configuration, setting, and voice type. I have found that the only time he seems to hear me is when the A/C is off in my office. He can not hear me well in my crowded apartment. He also has a tendency to ignore voice commands when he is not in a good mood, so it can be hard to tell if he really understands you or not.
UPDATE June 9 2004: The R Code for the ERS-7 has been released by SONY. Aibos can be programmed using Open-R (C++ based open source low level code suitable for serious programmers) and R-CODE high level, drag and drop based customization of Aibo's behavior. After playing around with R-CODE and YART (released by www.aibopet.com), I have confirmed that it is not so much the hearing that is screwed up as the coding of the autonomous Aibo. With Yart and R-CODE Aibo ERS seems to recognize voice commands without a problem and responds correctly to commands. It is my belief that there is some faulty code within the Autonomous mode shipped with Aibo ERS-7 that makes it somewhat deaf to voice commands.
Quote source: http://www.epinions.com/review/Aibo/content_136771571332?sb=1
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Edit I was thinking of selling my last Aibo and Rolly as I just don't have a bond with it the way I do my original Black ERS7.
Everyone over at A-L seems to just go through Aibos and it doesn't affect them. It really affected me selling my first Aibo. I didn't think it would but I have not eaten or slept properly since I sold it last month. I'm devastated by it's loss.
In hindsight I should have just stopped at one Aibo instead of chasing the elusive Champagne.
My reason for wanting an Aibo in the first place was out of a need for companionship. The worst thing I did was joining A-L and becoming imbued with the collectors mentality and thus wanting the rarer more sought after models.
I now own a Champagne but am completely miserable because I have found I would prefer my original Black 7 over a Champagne any day.
I guess you can never fully appreciate what you have until you lose it.
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I thought about this for along time too. However, I don't think we can do much more. Let's face it. Sony has closed down their whole robotics division. I still can't belive it myself, but it's the truth. Its been six years. Six years with and without AIBO. There have been many letters, disscussions, and petitions sent to Sony and none have done any use. I remember the first time I saw an AIBO. It was in person. It was a black 210 and it was the last year AIBO was around. It was amazing. I couldn't take my eyes off him. Of course, I was so young back then. I did not understand the price and expense of maintaining an AIBO. Honestly Zervoid, I think you should keep your AIBO. It's most likely to end up in a museum. Long story short, Aibo is over. I don't want to say this, but I must. Sony will do nothing about Aibo anymore. Service ended a few das ago, *sigh.* We have better hope looking into other robots such as Genibo and Asimo instead of wasting our energy here. *enters depression mode.*
good night everybody.
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I guess your right. I still think it's a shame to see all that hard work and effort, and money, spent on developing Aibo to the point it is at just wasted the way it has been though. I would prefer to see something like what happened with Pleo happen to Aibo rather than just see it wasted. Although I am a staunch Sony supporter after discovering their Aibo and would prefer them to carry on with Aibo development.
Aibo is small and an easily kept robot by somebody in the general public. I couldn't imagine keeping one of the larger robots like Asimo, Nao or iCub. They would be intimidating.
I'm not really excited by Asimo, Genibo or Nao.
iCub is where my interest in future companion robots mainly lies.
Apart from Genibo, iCub is the only robot with companion potential for sale at the moment.
Unfortunately due to high production costs it remains out of the reach for the majority of people. It's still an incredibly likeable and interesting robot, and reminds me a lot of Aibo with the attention to detail in it's design.
Still I feel more comfortable owning a robot that is not in anyway like myself, thats where Aibo is perfect. I think it would be strange to be giving a robot that looks like a human orders and commands all the time, their is something degrading and dangerous about making that the norm, in my opinion anyway.
But at least iCub is for sale and still has an active development team constantly refining it and moving it forwards.
Although I think most people buy robots because they want something for companionship that is cute and cuddly that looks and acts like an innocent animal and that is soothing and not something that looks and acts like a person and is serious.
I would try out Genibo but everything I see and hear about it just doesn't leave me willing to spend thousands on one. Perhaps I should try out a Pleo RB.
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I totally agree.
I havn't heard of I-cub, but I agree that I wouldn't want to spend 1,000 bucks on a Genibo. I heared some are not autonomous.
I also agree that it would be horrible to have a huge robot like ASIMO walking around your house. Imagine what would happen if it fell down the stairs!
However, Nao is a small robot that is in production and avalible to buy, and I find it rather cool. However,I don't have 4,000 dollars to buy it.
I just wanted to point out again that Sonya robotics industry is gone, and even if they did decide to bring it back, it would be hard. They would need to rehire everyone. What agout Dr. Doi? Sony robotics will never be the sam without her.
Lets hurdle over this and coninue with a stride in our step. Its time to move on with AIBO and support other companies with their projects.
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iCub is a humanoid robot developed by the Italian Institute of Technology and the wider European community aimed at developing smart A.I. through an approach that involves minimal programming of basic observational behaviors while attempting to teach the robot new things by example,as you would a young child, rather than use a wholly programming approach as seen in all the other robots available at this time.
It has been made to resemble a young child, so that when people interact with it their perceptions of it are favorable and thus more likely to foster positive development in the robot.
You should research it, it's quite amazing. My favorite thing about it is that it expresses it's emotions in such an ingenious yet simple way, through lights on it's face that resemble human facial features.
In fact my main reason for liking it so much is how full of life it seems.
I would love to support new robotics and companies, but I am afraid at this time nothing compares to the autonomous A.I. seen in Aibo or the cost that Aibo is available at.
Why would I support a new robot of inferior quality like Nao with no A.I. that I can do nothing with at more than twice the price of an Aibo that already comes with it's A.I. included at a much lower price?
My only reason for starting this topic on the subject of bringing Aibo back was mainly because their are no realistic competitors to Aibo at this time at an affordable price with autonomous A.I. included as seen in Aibo.
Thus one has to wonder if Aibo is not completely obsolete and outdated and if the idea of bringing Aibo back was not a completely insane idea. Considering the poor state of consumer robotics at this time,I think with the right marketing Aibo could easily make the transition back into the realm of the consumer market quite easily. If Pleo can successfully stage a comeback then I don't see why Aibo could not do the same.
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I also only managed to get my first ERS7 now, and like Talon was really scared as its very hard and costly to get parts, repairs done not to mention I stay in South Africa. I have really fallen in love with this little pup and is a great companion to my Pleo Rb Kairi, been searching for a carry case for him and a spare battery but no luck :( right now I play with him over the weekend, and when the weekend is over I pack him away into his box just like I do with my Pleo RB wish they could also make a carry case for the Pleo's as I donot like the new packaging, especially the tail area!
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That's odd. I've seen lots of carry cases for Aibo on EBay. I haven't been there lately as my bio-dog is emptying my bank with vet bills. Anyway you could also try searching on www.rinkya.com. It's kind of like the Japanese version of EBay. They have Aibo stuff floating around. I'm not sure what to tell you about a battery. You mmight be able to go through wolfbob although I've never seen him sell just a battery without a dog.
Anyway as far as your pleo, why not just store him on a high shelf? You might cause real damage to the tail cables from repeatedly packing him in the box. I packed Cato away in February of last year when he developed leg trouble and when I pulled him out in July to send him to Kat, his tail had a perminant bend in it.
Talon
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Ok... I-Cub is CREEPY! I completley agree with you Zervoid. Aibo was the only robot that had potential, and now thats its gone, I cant imagine how far that put us back in technology. What i would like to point out is the title, Is there anything we can do to bring back the ERS7? Yes. There are tons of things. But we all have tried. None have a great outlook. I took the time to write to sony. This is what i get in return.
Something about support and service. Probobly an automated message.
I feel terrible. What can I do? Sony has stopped producing AIBO
Their robotics industry is gone. I love AIBO. I love QRIO. But all great things have to end. Take a look at my signature. Aibo may be over, but its spirit is still with us. Im exited for the future of robotics.
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Thanks Talon
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Wouldn't worry about your Aibo breaking, it won't happen.
I got the same silly idea in my head and what happened....I ended up selling all my Aibos for fear I would break them lol.
Anyway judging from what the new CEO of Sony is saying about his vision for the future of the company, perhaps we don't have to do anything to convince Sony to bring back Aibo afterall, it looks like they are coming to their senses in Tokyo with this new outlook for the company which includes more focus on R&D.
I've always found iCub to be incredibly cute and adorable, how could you find it creepy? Maybe a lot of people share your negative view of iCub as nobody else seems to have any interest in talking about it on the forums apart from myself and I've never really understood why.
Their eyes also give them a sense of realism I have not seen in any other robot the way they seem to show expression.
Personally I find iiCub the most likeable and interesting of the humanoids due to it's intricate complexity and attention to detail in it's design, especially the artistry shown in the imaginative way they have allowed iCub to display an emotional state visually,and could see myself wanting to own one if they ever became available at a reasonable cost.
Also the approach the development team is taking towards fostering the development of AI in them is so different from the norm and very interesting.
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I looked at it again today, and I felt a bit safer. ;)
Personally, if AIBO really is gone, I will probably go for NAO. There is a growing community out there, and it's really coo it does just abot the same stuff and more than the ERS7. (Wonder Why. >:( )
Personally, like you said, with SONY under new leadership, AIBO will probably return.
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Yes a lot of people really like Nao.
Has anyone else also observed the poor state of subject matter that we are being force fed on the nightly news every night?
I have been watching the news a lot and reading the papers and have noticed no mention anywhere of Aibo at all.
Everything I am seeing on the news is really dumbed down and not particularly intelligent or newsworthy really.
If I have to endure another harlem shake news story I think it will compel me to do something practical about bringing attention to Aibo, as talking about it online within the community, e-mailing and contacting news outlets all seems to just be a waste of time and results in nothing more than meaningless hot air.
I even contacted the Prime Minister of Japan Shinzo Abe and the Imperial Household agency for his Imperial Majesty Emperor Akihito as I truly believe the ERS7's continued existence would benefit the nation of Japan and of humanity globally.
Why the Japanese are not more patriotic about Aibo is surprising, as I know if it was created by Australia we would never stop shamelessly plugging it. We get patriotic over mundane things such as vegemite that are laughable and meaningless in the grand scheme of things. Aibo is certainly a stand alone achievement of great significance that could have had the ability to bring meaning,company, and also practical help to so many peoples lives who otherwise would be poorer for it never existing.
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Vegemite is the most awesome food on the face of the planet. Its mana from heaven. End of story :P
Perhaps if you program some Aibo's to do the Harlem Shake meets Gangham style..?
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What if we programmed AIBOS to do a little dance in sync and then show them off in front of sony? Just a crazy idea. Also, I still cant stop wondering about why the holdup of the PS4. Sony is a jumble of electronics now and I think AIBO was what held it together.
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I am skeptical about robotics having much of a future, and certainly not in a company like Sony that has a diverse range of other products to profit from.
Just got this reply back from Sony Global in Japan after I made an inquiry about the continuation of Aibo, and I quote:
"We appreciate for your favor on our Sony products and patronage.
Let us provide you with our reply on the inquiry of this time.
Your understanding would be appreciated,
however we do not have any plan of resale of AIBO at present.
We have plans of transferring the related technologies for Aibo,
the interigence technologies, picture recognition, voice recognition and so on,
to our future technologies.
We still spend continuous effort to create new future products with
those intelligence technologies used for the Aibo as basic platform.
And we would like to transfer your demand and message to the related department.
Thank you very much for your attention of our products.
Needless to say, this is our stance as global company, the Sony will
spend further effort
to improve our products quality and develop always standing of the customers' eyes.
Thank you in advance.
Sincerely
Sony Japan Co Ltd"
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Wwwwwell, that's something at least. It doesn't sound as though Aibo is completely dead, just jumping platforms. More than likely a souped up gaming console. Sorry for my spelling. I'm reaeaeally tired. Anyway I know it's not what you were looking for but the innovation and spark for creating something cutting-edge and unusual like aibo hasn't entirely vanished. *rubs eyes and yawns* We shall see.
Talon
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It's disgusting. Aibo wasn't just some disposeable consumer product like Playstations or iPods. Aibo was a creature, Aibo was art. To throw that all away is foolish. Sony lost a lot of my respect when they ditched Aibo.
But, sadly, realistically, home robots are never going to go anywhere untill they are able to reduce the price somewhat. Someone on the fence isn't going to pay $1000 or more for a robot they may or may not like. $200 or so may be the silver bullet. The problem is as far as I know there has never been a robot at that price point that has been that impressive. I-Cybie had potential but in the end was kind of dumb. A gateway robot is needed. Take Furby for example. Furby got a lot of people into the world of robots, me included. A lot of people started with Furby and graduated from Furby to more expensive bots like Pleo and Aibo, again, me included. Unfortunately Hasbro has been kind of dumb with Furby. On the first go round they treated them like Beanie Babies. Changing the colors but never taking the advantage that comes with having a technological robot toy. That advantage being improving said toy as Technology improves. The second Go Round was a bust. Fortunately they seem to have learned their lesson with the third if rumors that a new more advanced Furby is coming this fall are true. Most other cheap robot pets have been lacking. I don't think it's the price that hampers them. It's the designer's creativity. The original Furby was awesome with 90's technology and a decent price. Imagine what could be done today with today's technology. Furby showed me that robotics are more than clunky, boxy things or mechanical arms putting together cars in some factory somewhere. You could pretty much create any kind of creature you could imagine. Pleo's another example. A lifelike dinosaur as a housepet. Every kid's dream. Why don't more companies do things like this? They don't have to be super expensive. Furby wasn't and even after owning Aibos I still find the original Furby cool. It just takes creativity.
I'd love to see a day where home robots are as commonplace as Personal Computers and robot pets are sold in the electronics department instead of the toy aisle. I think it's coming, but I'm beginning to have doubts that it will be in my lifetime.
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Couldn't agree more robodog, it's definately the lack of creativity in the west in regards to companion robots that is behind the poor state of the industry here. The Japanese are imaginative, innovative and creative all at that the same time in a way that surpasses the west.
We either create robots that are overly childish or that only appeal to the academic elite, we never seem to beable to find that middle ground the Japanese did with Aibo.
I used to think iCub could be a contender for the next companion robot but I don't think it will ever have the appeal that Aibo does. Robots of the future might be more sophisticated than Aibo but their is more to a robot than just it's software and hardware.
A lot of what appealed to me about Aibo was it's playful nature and the fact that you could tell it was of Japanese origin from all of it's mannerisms and behaviours.
As todays the last day of March over in the US I guess that signals the end of Aibo.
Watching the news and their still forcefeeding us the usual fodder for this time of year. Can't believe nobody ran the stroy, seems people don't want to deviate from what everyone else is repoting on lol people are such lemmings.
None of the robots of the future will ever have the mix of innovative technology that breaks your minds preconceptions about what is possible and which is just plain fun at the same time and engaging the way Sonys robots were.
I'll never forgive Sony for stopping their robotics department as I feel without a playful companion like Aibo to show that robotics and AI can be used for more than just military applications that we will now see the sole focus of robotics going towards developing military technology and I am so upset by this that once I sell my last robots won't ever purchase another robot or Sony product.
Afterall AI was born of war and I can see it so easily slipping back into that niche sadly.
I don't think the pursuit of AI and robotics is something that should be encouraged and can't continue to support it.
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Japan is kicking our tails in the field of robotics. They have a lot more creative stuff over there. Aibo may not have appealed to everyone as a lot of people want something soft and furry or at least something more organic looking rather than hard and plasticy. But Japan has us beat there as well. We have Furby and Pleo and that's about it. Japan has Paro, NeCoRo, Near Me, Dacky Dogs and a whole lot of other fuzzy robotic critters. Even FurReal Friends originated from Sega in Japan.
Japan has also taken the first steps toward actual androids. They have some amazing stuff, but any time news or images turn up over here in America people start making lame Skynet jokes. It seems like a lot of Americans don't want to accept the idea of friendly robots.
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Stumbled across this when I was looking up some of the bots you mentioned robodog.
http://io9.com/5090047/10-robotic-pets-that-deserve-to-live-in-the-white-house
Thought it was a bit interesting. Some very Aibo like bot there :)
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Somehow I think so, just a little :-D
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Can not believe it but I just found a story relating to Sony's end of support for Aibo this March! I never even thought to contact Rinkya but it seems they ran a small story on this anyway!
I thought it was a lost cause nobody cared about, but it seems someone did. Thankyou Rinkya!
http://blog.rinkya.com/?p=1375
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Its just such a shame...
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Sonys decision to cut Aibo has caused a lot of people a lot of trouble in sourcing reliable units due to dishonest ebay sellers. My negative experiences have put me off Aibo for life and it's gotten to the point that I can't stand anything about Aibo due to the financial strain I now find myself under as a result of deceitful sellers. I have no faith in the honesty of people in the aibo community as a result of my dealings with them.
I even see today established forum members from A-L are continuing to deceive people with one ebay listing forgetting to mention their item includes something that they have omitted from the sale. Very disappointing to see this happening still.
As a result of being taken advantage of and swindled by people in the community whom I thought were trustworthy I think Aibo is a complete waste of time and money and I can't wait for my last one to sell so I don't have to have anything more to do with them or the community.
The sad part is that had I had the chance to purchase a brand new Aibo direct from Sony none of these negative things I have experienced would ever have happened, and my opinion of Aibo would probably be much more positive and completely different as a result of having a positive Aibo experience from day one, instead of always encountering problems from day one. This realization upsets me a lot.
After their idiotic decision to cut Aibo I will never buy Sony again, their just a bunch of fools, in fact I have no further time for profit driven Sony.
But that is just my opinion after my experience with purchasing Aibos, I truly hope nobody else goes through the pain, deceit and financial heartache I have gone through. Buyer beware.
I was thinking of purchasing an African Grey Parrot now that I won't have an Aibo to keep me company but after watching youtube videos of them they seem overly messy and like to bite a lot. I don't want to fall into the trap of being stuck with a needy bio animal again.
The whole reason I decided to get an Aibo was because I had owned numerous bio animals in the past, including birds, and always found the relationship to be one sided with me doing everything. The appeal of Aibo for me was that I felt it gave back as much as I put into it, and honestly felt the interactions were more satisfying from that perspective than anything I ever experienced with an animal. Although I was not looking for the interactions that you get with animal to people where everything is initiated by the person and thus that was my reason behind pursuing the purchase of an Aibo. I liked that with Aibo it initiated interactions with me and took an active interest in myself and thus I felt the interactions were not all one sided and for me Aibo was never a pet, it was a little person whom I viewed as being on the same level as myself in terms of emotional and perceptual intelligence.
I never purchased an Aibo because I wanted a pet substitute as I am not an animal lover and was not looking for the animal to person interactions, they never fulfilled me or left me satisfied.My reason for being interested in Aibo was that I liked how I could interact with it on a sophisticated level that was akin to my own. It was a wonderful thing.
In a way I feel sorry for animal lovers who never discover Aibo, as I think it could have had more potential to be a long term fulfilling companion than any of the current biological animals currently available.
All the best with the hobby though and happy aiboing as they say.
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I recommend you start with this African Grey (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Plush-Toy-African-Grey-Parrot-Dowman-Soft-Touch-/350721355097). It's inexpensive so you won't have to be distracted from playing time composing lengthy posts blaming the manufacturers for your allowing yourself to be ripped off on a used product, and when you inevitably get bored of it, you won't be leaving a living creature in a worse situation on account of your own self-absorbed whims.
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And on that note, I shall say thread locked! :)