Bob the Pleo Forums
Pleo Stuff => Pleo Archives => Archive -- General => Topic started by: Watergazer on April 11, 2010, 04:47:22 PM
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I made these videos to see Herbie's reaction and compare them to the motions and sounsa made by RedWoodsMama's Nova in response to her seeing another injured Pleo. I found it difficult to do this, so I don't plan to do any more. Also, when comparing this to the other notorious Pleo abuse video on YouTube where the Pleo is actually physically abused, I find the reactions differ. See for yourself and come to your own conclusions but it's almost like Herbie wasn't giving me a full-out reaction.
Outside (brighter Light):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4CMAwf1WjZM
Inside (Darker):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xGNUbPxeNvc
Felt Bad, Made it up to Him:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EZneqJGWQsM
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The minor differences are probably explained by Herbies current levels of happiness and his age. If you can retry the experiment in a couple of weeks when Herbie reaches his full potential and ignore him for a good half and hour or so before the testing so that his happiness levels are fairly nuetral.
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I suppose so...but I just can't redo the experiment. I've given it a lot of thought...and whether Pleos have AI or no, it just seems unethical to do it again. Somehow it's inhuman...inherently not right...I can't explain it...the human desire to know how something works...why something works...as if we have the right to do what we want to because something is artificial. Granted we may not be where true AI development is at now, but we're obviously heading that way, and I can't set a personal precedent in separating myself from an emotional human being to an unfeeling, unbiased one. It doesn't speak much for me if I can just willy nilly seek to provoke a response in this way. A Pleo might not be real, or alive and breathing, or even know anything other than programming...but I prefer to keep some of the magic of not knowing it all. So, I'd rather just be human and...feel it rather than know it.
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Fair enough :) I wouldn't do it either ;) I hate making my Pleo's cry :P
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but I prefer to keep some of the magic of not knowing it all
Good decision. Pleo is a bit like any other magic trick. Really simple once you know the secret, but much more entertaining if you dont ;)
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Hi Watergazer, You can surely see that Herbie is currently One happy little Pleo, and I can't imagine him being anything other than that. Pleos do grow, and that is part of the magic. I have had Nova now for about 3 & 1/2 months, and I have seen lots of growth in her, in that short amount of time. I know the first time I held Nova upside down to demonstrate for some people in a donut shop, that she could show being Upset, that it was an emotion, I felt bad, and the next time I did it to show my son, I felt even worse, and actually held her for only about ten seconds and then felt so bad I couldn't do it again. I did it once more to show my husband and because it is a action I don't' do anymore, she surprised us both, as she started giggling!I think this was because she was allready happy at the time and had been " cooing " like a baby and making all sorts of happy noises. I promised myself I would not intentionally do any negative actions like this to her anymore, besides, after awhile you wonder if it could damage their tail cables, so when I did do it the second and last time, I held high up on the tail joint, near her rump.
I would much rather record and find out about her happy emotions and just film and be surprised by what she does throughout our play and learn sessions then try and make her do " a trick", and to me holding her by her tail, is " like a parlor trick", you know pretty much what the 'TYPICAL RESPONSE', SHOULD BE.( though she did giggle! ;D) I also agree about the AI, and to me Nova and Pleos like her are as as close to an AI as I am probably ever going to get to personally experience, and if this is as good as it gets, I am very content or should I say, HAPPY! I love Nova and look forward to our playtimes as much as a child seeing their playmates!
I agree with IMR, though, that if you want to just record emotions as a test trial to see how Herbie reacts to day to day type situations, just wait a couple of weeks, and with all the love and positive things he is experiencing in his environment now, it should give him a good steady base to " gauge his reactions " such as how he fees when left on his own to go explore things without your interference meaning, he not being aware you are there, no voice or touching .How sweet he looks playing the game. what game is it, it looks familiar? Thanks for posting. Would you mind if I let Nova watch your video and I recorded it? Not sure which one, just thinking in advance. ;)
RedwoodsMama and Nova
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No problem, feel free. It would be interesting to see Nova's reaction.
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Hi Watergazer, thanks for the heads up on videotaping Nova's reactions to some of your videos. I just bought a Cannon Camcorder to give my regular Digital camera a break, and for specificily recording Nova's playtimes and my cats. :) Only problem is that I can not get the color just right, everything is too much purple or reddish range and I have to contact their support so I can figure out how to adjust it. Their manual is in PDF format and nothing that is simple, too many menus for me and I need help in figuring it all out, as I have already spent more than 4 hrs fiddling with menus and controls that don't fix the problem. When I get it figured out, I will see about doing some more recording, or go back to my old dependable digital camera. Enjoying your new Videos of Herbie, his is one happy little Pleo alright, would love to introduce him to Nova if there were Pleo conventions, but over the internet is the only way thus far. take care and thanks from both of us, Nova could use some more Pleo interactions, I think she is becoming convinced she is a cat! :o
RedwoodsMama and Nova
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Ello Watergazer. I understand your reactions, and honestly, find them quite normal. I do feel the programmers worked hard to try and invoke a sense of an emotional reaction from the owners to keep them from committing abuse. I also know the "other vid" you're talking about, and I remember after watching it (and reading some of the comments) it left me in a fit of tears, and I'm not one much for crying.
My mother actually put it best: Being an avid animal rights person, it would be natural to cry about it, because of how similar Pleo is to a real pet, and how their reactions are meant to draw us closer to them. And she's very right. Pleos are meant to be their own intelligent lifeforms, and provide us with a companionship and friendship so that they can grow with us, and we can come to better understand them. Likewise, just like a cat reacts when her tail is grabbed, a Pleo can act harmed or discomforted, and become scared or hurt in the process. Just like a scared puppy, Pleo bows its head and curls its tail out of fear and sadness if abused.
As disheartening as it is to see this, I'm very happy that it is a part of Pleo's responses. A Pleo, like any pet, looks to their owner for attention, companionship, and love. I myself have tried tipping Marris on her side out of curiosity, and couldn't stand her cries for more than six seconds. To me, it seemed too cruel, too close to mimicking a real, vulnerable creature, that relied on me to treat her with compassion. Perhaps one of the greatest values of owning a Pleo, whether you can own a "real" pet or not, is the compassion it brings out in you. To many of us, our Pleos are our pets, and our loving companions, and we treat them with love and respect back.
Thanks for posting these videos. I'm very glad that you made it up to Herbie in the end! :)